Niagara Falls arena

[VERBATIM]

If your curious on what it looks like I have taken some photo's.
I have about 10,000 photo's of the place every nook and cranny inside and out.
I would say we have not missed 1 inch of the building inside and out.

[ItsGameTime]

Sorry but these pics are not related to the IceDogs so I had to move them as well.

[VERBATIM]

They might be.

[Rolston87]

I think a good number of people would be upset if the IceDogs were re-located to the Falls(St Kitts people).
I wouldn't get to go to as many games as I do.
Please Bill and Denise if your reading this prevent this from happening.
Put a new arena between St Catharines and The Falls and Alot of people will be happy.

[AlphaDog]

Wow REAL SEATS! And a BIT of parking too. Hopefully there's lots of overflow parking within a couple minutes walk.

The rink itself, inside, looks dark and depressing though :(

[LEGIN]

I LIKE OUR ARENA BETTER BUT PRETTY COOL PICS:)

[Chooch]

It's true that it's a better arena in several ways, more and better seating, better glass, easier access to snack bars and washrooms and parking, but it would be a shame to move the Dogs from the Jack as things are going very well there these days. And besides, the NF arena is supposed to be torn down in a few years.

[cope]

There is something about the Jack when you walk in, that feels hockey, that I don't think can be duplicated anywhere else.

[fishfan51]

I LIKE OUR ARENA BETTER BUT PRETTY COOL PICS:)

What do you like better about the "Jack"?

The terrible seating? (The Falls has better seats)

The lack of room in the concourse? (Both arenas are similar, but there is a litte more room in the Falls)

The 250 fewer seats? (A sellout in the Falls is 3,399)

The 1 window concession stand? (The Falls has 4 giant windows for concessions at the main snackbar, they have another in the seating bowl at the opposite end and another downstairs.)

The lack of parking? (I know there isn't a ton in the Falls but there is a lot more then in St.Kitts)

Newer clock? (The one in the Falls is gotta be twenty years newer)

Guys that know how to roll out carpet? (just kidding IGT:w00t:)

Both arenas are similar in many ways...but there is more room to get around in the Falls.

The only thing the St.Kitts has over the Falls and it is the BIGGEST and most IMPORTANT thing is Fan Support!

I think the best thing for this team is to stay in St.Catharines...it is the biggest market in the region and seems to have the most loyal fans. The problem in the Falls is there isn't enough true hard core hockey fans. They love to come out and support a winning team but if the team is struggling...so will the gate.

I for one don't give a rats ass where they build a new facility in the region. I will support the Dogs! PERIOD!

The quality of hockey and entertainment value is so great, that anyone who complains about driving another 10 or 15 minutes down the road, to me isn't a true fan. They fall into the category the Burke's are trying to get rid of this City VS City crap!

If the only way to keep the Dogs in the region was to move to another centre i.e. NF, Welland, Thorold? Would you still support them 100% because I know I would!

[AlphaDog]

The only thing the St.Kitts has over the Falls and it is the BIGGEST and most IMPORTANT thing is Fan Support!

I think the best thing for this team is to stay in St.Catharines...it is the biggest market in the region and seems to have the most loyal fans. The problem in the Falls is there isn't enough true hard core hockey fans. They love to come out and support a winning team but if the team is struggling...so will the gate.

I for one don't give a rats ass where they build a new facility in the region. I will support the Dogs! PERIOD!

The quality of hockey and entertainment value is so great, that anyone who complains about driving another 10 or 15 minutes down the road, to me isn't a true fan. They fall into the category the Burke's are trying to get rid of this City VS City crap!

If the only way to keep the Dogs in the region was to move to another centre i.e. NF, Welland, Thorold? Would you still support them 100% because I know I would!

:iagree:

When you have one city making up a quarter of the entire region's population, it only makes sense to put it there. But I'll go anywhere along the QEW or 406 to a game. Of course, if they were to stick it out in Port Colborne or West Lincoln, that would be a different matter :D As long as it's an easy drive for everyone. I think that also makes St. Kitts a good location because it's got the 406 and the QEW going right through it. Of course, my opinion is biased, being a St. Catharines resident :o

[cope]

fishfan, good post.

I have stated this before I would rather stay at the Jack and have the team invest in the on ice product over investing in material items that will take away from budgets to ensure the on ice product is the best in the OHL.

Let's face it a new arena will have a higher lease, maintance, utilities and outright cash. Even with a increase in ticket price it will detract from scouting, marketing and other budgets that are needed to draft good talent make good trades and get fans in seats year over year.

If like you said we have true fans, they will put up with some discomfort to have a team that goes long into the playoffs year over year.

The arena after a few years of deep playoff runs will take care of itself, and the REGION (not Niagara Falls) can all invest in what is a proven and successful Jr A program / buisness.

I don't think anyone will convince me that Niagara Falls is only looking at the revenue St. Catharines is getting from the team being at the Jack, and now trying to find away to get it.

This new arena talk only splits the fans in the region, it doesn't help bring the region together like the team would like.

[habsfan]

What do you like better about the "Jack"?

The terrible seating? (The Falls has better seats)

The lack of room in the concourse? (Both arenas are similar, but there is a litte more room in the Falls)

The 250 fewer seats? (A sellout in the Falls is 3,399)

The 1 window concession stand? (The Falls has 4 giant windows for concessions at the main snackbar, they have another in the seating bowl at the opposite end and another downstairs.)

The lack of parking? (I know there isn't a ton in the Falls but there is a lot more then in St.Kitts)

Newer clock? (The one in the Falls is gotta be twenty years newer)

Guys that know how to roll out carpet? (just kidding IGT:w00t:)

Both arenas are similar in many ways...but there is more room to get around in the Falls.

The only thing the St.Kitts has over the Falls and it is the BIGGEST and most IMPORTANT thing is Fan Support!

I think the best thing for this team is to stay in St.Catharines...it is the biggest market in the region and seems to have the most loyal fans. The problem in the Falls is there isn't enough true hard core hockey fans. They love to come out and support a winning team but if the team is struggling...so will the gate.

I for one don't give a rats ass where they build a new facility in the region. I will support the Dogs! PERIOD!

The quality of hockey and entertainment value is so great, that anyone who complains about driving another 10 or 15 minutes down the road, to me isn't a true fan. They fall into the category the Burke's are trying to get rid of this City VS City crap!

If the only way to keep the Dogs in the region was to move to another centre i.e. NF, Welland, Thorold? Would you still support them 100% because I know I would!

I would like to play devil's advocate with the above. :11: Ours is better than yours! I've been to both arenas countless times for decades, and still do.

Seating: N.F wins hands down.
Concourse room: I give it a draw.
# of seats: N.F takes it.
Concessions: It sounds like you may have missed a few at the Jack. There's a total of 4 separate concessions, upper and lower on the south side, and 2 lower concessions on the north side, one of which is larger than any in N.F.
Parking: more on-site in N.F. but perhaps more overall within 5 min walk in St Kitts.
Clock: they're both antiquated, don't think it matters than one maybe 20 years newer when it's still 30 years old...
Carpet layers: Not touching this one.

Others: Recent additions and renovations have been done to the Jack, and not just since the Dogs have come to town. N.F needs some serious repairs (whichof course could be done). Other than the Canucks dressing room, there are only closets posing as dressing rooms. And please watch your head getting around the lower level (if you had to) if you're over 5'2.

Now, in the spirit, please feel free to rip my reply to shreds, or add anything I've missed... :thumbsup:

[VdbleU]

I think a good number of people would be upset if the IceDogs were re-located to the Falls(St Kitts people).
I wouldn't get to go to as many games as I do.
Please Bill and Denise if your reading this prevent this from happening.
Put a new arena between St Catharines and The Falls and Alot of people will be happy.

If I'm not mistaken the Burke's made a 5 year committment to the City of St. Catharines. Whether anything was signed I don't know, but the City then invested, according to reports at the time, $250,000 in upgrades to the dressing rooms etc. I don't see them reneging on that and moving to the Falls

[fishfan51]

I would like to play devil's advocate with the above. :11: Ours is better than yours! I've been to both arenas countless times for decades, and still do.

Seating: N.F wins hands down.
Concourse room: I give it a draw.
# of seats: N.F takes it.
Concessions: It sounds like you may have missed a few at the Jack. There's a total of 4 separate concessions, upper and lower on the south side, and 2 lower concessions on the north side, one of which is larger than any in N.F.
Parking: more on-site in N.F. but perhaps more overall within 5 min walk in St Kitts.
Clock: they're both antiquated, don't think it matters than one maybe 20 years newer when it's still 30 years old...
Carpet layers: Not touching this one.

Others: Recent additions and renovations have been done to the Jack, and not just since the Dogs have come to town. N.F needs some serious repairs (whichof course could be done). Other than the Canucks dressing room, there are only closets posing as dressing rooms. And please watch your head getting around the lower level (if you had to) if you're over 5'2.

Now, in the spirit, please feel free to rip my reply to shreds, or add anything I've missed... :thumbsup:

I didn't say there were more concessions in the Falls...just that they are more accesible in the Falls (i.e the one in the arena bowl)...also there is no way any concession stand at the Jack is bigger then the main one in the Falls. My point was the concessions at the Jack handle either one or two lines at a time. There are easily 6 lines at the main concession at the NF Memorial. All the other satellite stands cancel each other out.

The clock in the Falls is not 30 years old as it was replaced during the Thunder days. 15 years maybe.

[fishfan51]

If I'm not mistaken the Burke's made a 5 year committment to the City of St. Catharines. Whether anything was signed I don't know, but the City then invested, according to reports at the time, $250,000 in upgrades to the dressing rooms etc. I don't see them reneging on that and moving to the Falls

I may be mistaken but I thought they signed a five year lease for a dollar a year.

If the Dogs wanted to break the lease I'm sure Burke could just hand the city a 10 spot and tell them to keep the change. That way he fulfilled his end by paying off the lease.

I'm not suggesting in anyway this would be happening, just hypothetical.

[GoDogsGo]

I think there is more to breaking any kind of lease than $10... all that lawyer stuff....

And here is a question... why is the falls jumping on the band wagon now to bring the team into it's city... why didnt they think of that way back when... too little too late...lets just all be happy we have an OHL in the REGION...where ever it is... be thankful they didnt go elsewhere....where they end up...that's where they end up... out of our hands....ultimate decisions lies with the Burkes...if they want it in NOTL...and they build a rink there.... that's where the crowds will come....

[GoDogsGo]

I remember way back when... it was posted that $250 000 was spent on the dressing room alone... I'll tell ya... there is no way that much money went into that dressing room... it's nice looking...done up... but no way $250 000 worth....that amount to the arena... I can see that....
Lets just hope for new seats....next season....

[fishfan51]

I think there is more to breaking any kind of lease than $10... all that lawyer stuff....

And here is a question... why is the falls jumping on the band wagon now to bring the team into it's city... why didnt they think of that way back when... too little too late...lets just all be happy we have an OHL in the REGION...where ever it is... be thankful they didnt go elsewhere....where they end up...that's where they end up... out of our hands....ultimate decisions lies with the Burkes...if they want it in NOTL...and they build a rink there.... that's where the crowds will come....

If he is paying his lease with the 10 dollars, then he is not breaking his lease. If he agreed to pay a dollar a year and does just that then how is not breaking the lease?

Who said the Falls in jumping on the band wagon? Everything that has been said is hypothetical. We have heard nothing official come from the City of Niagara Falls or the IceDogs.

Niagara Falls has been asked to support the team by the Burkes and city council did just that by buying 100 tickets. Has any other city or town in the region bought any tickets?

The bottom line is this....The Dogs need a new arena PERIOD. They can not survive in the Jack long term. This was Burke's plan from the beginning, he said it himself numerous times....fill the joint on a regular basis, THEN and only then approach local governments for a new barn.

Speculation about the Dogs and the Falls will continue to run wild until St.Catharines builds a proper facility. If they don't of course the Burkes will have no choice but to look for alternatives.

Myself...I would rather the Dogs stay and play out of the Jack then build a new facility because I love the atmosphere of the old barns. But...we know it won't work with the lack of revenue the Jack supplies (i.e lack of private boxes etc.)

They said on the Sportsnet broadcast that after this season the Jack will be the oldest arena in the CHL.

[Standing Room Only]

a new arena will have to come from private money, city os st. kitts still paying for the 4pad and N.F. building new 2pad( or is it a quad). If the Burkes think the falls is better for the dogs I personally believe the will lose attendance over the long run. If the move some one can have my season tickets as I will no longer be a season ticket holder and may enjoy an occassional game against a highly skilled team full of prospects.

[GoDogsGo]

If he is paying his lease with the 10 dollars, then he is not breaking his lease. If he agreed to pay a dollar a year and does just that then how is not breaking the lease?

Who said the Falls in jumping on the band wagon? Everything that has been said is hypothetical. We have heard nothing official come from the City of Niagara Falls or the IceDogs.

Niagara Falls has been asked to support the team by the Burkes and city council did just that by buying 100 tickets. Has any other city or town in the region bought any tickets?

The bottom line is this....The Dogs need a new arena PERIOD. They can not survive in the Jack long term. This was Burke's plan from the beginning, he said it himself numerous times....fill the joint on a regular basis, THEN and only then approach local governments for a new barn.

Speculation about the Dogs and the Falls will continue to run wild until St.Catharines builds a proper facility. If they don't of course the Burkes will have no choice but to look for alternatives.

Myself...I would rather the Dogs stay and play out of the Jack then build a new facility because I love the atmosphere of the old barns. But...we know it won't work with the lack of revenue the Jack supplies (i.e lack of private boxes etc.)

They said on the Sportsnet broadcast that after this season the Jack will be the oldest arena in the CHL.
leases are not just about money...there are other stuff involved...non of us know exctly what was agreed upon...and this is not the place to debate the legalities of leases....

if NF is supporting the team... than that is awsome...i belive they are the only ones...however they should not have been asked..but just done it on their own...but that is whole other issue.

from all that I am hearing... it seems... that NF now wants the team...but I could be wrong...like I said...where ever the team ends up...that's where the people will come...it has to be a smart decision to bring in the crowds... and so far the Jack is doing a fine job...:thumbup::cheers2:

[fishfan51]

a new arena will have to come from private money, city os st. kitts still paying for the 4pad and N.F. building new 2pad( or is it a quad). If the Burkes think the falls is better for the dogs I personally believe the will lose attendance over the long run. If the move some one can have my season tickets as I will no longer be a season ticket holder and may enjoy an occassional game against a highly skilled team full of prospects.

Why would you give up your season tickets? Because you have to travel 10 more minutes to support the team named NIAGARA? Again they are called the Niagara IceDogs not the St.Catharines IceDogs for a reason.
Again, if everyone throughout the region had that mentality, then the Dogs wouldn't be selling out games like they are. What if people in NF, Welland, Thorold, Port and all the surrounding areas had that mentality? The team won't last anywhere in the region, without the support of everyone.

By this logic... I guess I should give up my pair of season tickets and Verbatim should give up his 10 or whatever he is up to now because the games are being played five minutes outside our cities boundries.

[Rolston87]

Now that I think of it..
I wouldn't give up seeing the IceDogs for the world.
I would just have to either a) get a ride from someone to the games or b) get my drivers licence and a car.

[GoDogsGo]

Why would you give up your season tickets? Because you have to travel 10 more minutes to support the team named NIAGARA? Again they are called the Niagara IceDogs not the St.Catharines IceDogs for a reason.
Again, if everyone throughout the region had that mentality, then the Dogs wouldn't be selling out games like they are. What if people in NF, Welland, Thorold, Port and all the surrounding areas had that mentality? The team won't last anywhere in the region, without the support of everyone.

By this logic... I guess I should give up my pair of season tickets and Verbatim should give up his 10 or whatever he is up to now because the games are being played five minutes outside our cities boundries.
people drive 30mins or more to hamilton watch the bull dogs... if people want the team to stay they will need to support it where ever it is....

[fishfan51]

people drive 30mins or more to hamilton watch the bull dogs... if people want the team to stay they will need to support it where ever it is....


Bang on!!!

[AlphaDog]

fishfan, good post.

I have stated this before I would rather stay at the Jack and have the team invest in the on ice product over investing in material items that will take away from budgets to ensure the on ice product is the best in the OHL.

Let's face it a new arena will have a higher lease, maintance, utilities and outright cash. Even with a increase in ticket price it will detract from scouting, marketing and other budgets that are needed to draft good talent make good trades and get fans in seats year over year.

If like you said we have true fans, they will put up with some discomfort to have a team that goes long into the playoffs year over year.

The arena after a few years of deep playoff runs will take care of itself, and the REGION (not Niagara Falls) can all invest in what is a proven and successful Jr A program / buisness.

I don't think anyone will convince me that Niagara Falls is only looking at the revenue St. Catharines is getting from the team being at the Jack, and now trying to find away to get it.

This new arena talk only splits the fans in the region, it doesn't help bring the region together like the team would like.

All good points!

I'm just scared at the cold facts from all the previous OHL/AHL teams that have played there and have moved on. The simple truth of the matter is that nobody has lasted there (except the Falcons). But no 'big-league' team has managed to stay at that location.

Hopefully local business can get behind a new rink and offer substantial assistance in its construction, because like you said, every team has a budget to work with, so using money for something new means it's going to have to come out of something current.

[Schtick]

people drive 30mins or more to hamilton watch the bull dogs... if people want the team to stay they will need to support it where ever it is....


Exactly!! ...
I drive to Hamilton all of the time to watch the BullDogs, it is great hockey to, and people will travel to watch a good hockey game, actually this saturday I am heading up to Huntsville to take in an OPJHL Huntsville Otters game for sunday afternoon.
The Niagara IceDogs are "Niagara's" team and it is going to take all of us no matter what city we live in and abroad to make this team stay here.
The hockey is GREAT! and well worth the drive within the Niagara Region or across the province if your WellandDogFan :D


I think the ONLY way I WOULD NOT support the IceDogs is if Steve Ludzik or Terry Masterson had anything to do with the team.:9898:

I have been to the Niagara Falls Memorial Arena many many, many times to watch Welland take on the Niagara Falls Canucks in Golden Horseshoe Jr. B Hockey action and it is a great arena, but it definately is lacking in some things that the Jack has, just like the Jack is lacking in some things that the Memorial Arena has.
Personally I just wish the team get's a NEW!! state of the art facility and the all of Niagara supports the team 100%

GO DOGS GO!

[WellandDogsFan]

I use to drive to Hamilton all the time to watch the Bulldogs. Heck, we almost signed up for the season ticket drive when it was announced the Preds may be moving to Hamilton.

Driving a few mins to watch my beloved IceDogs doesnt bother me in the least.

[MadMann]

Im just going to enjoy the team while they are here. No matter what city they play out of. I am completly expecting to be dissapointed in a few years when this team starts shopping around for a new location because the Niagara region doesnt like to invest in anything for locals. If we needed a new million dollar tourist welcome center contruction would start tomorrow. I love it when Ted Salci comes on the ice so I can boo him. I cant believe we have "boss hog" as our mayor. Have any of you ever noticed the actual constuction of our barn. The roof is made completely of 2x4 s stood up on edge. One of my only consistent complaints about the jack is that everyone from the box office entrance gets bottle necked through a gauntlet of merchandisers. I really dont like to be led like cattle.

[strohs]

Im just going to enjoy the team while they are here. No matter what city they play out of. I am completly expecting to be dissapointed in a few years when this team starts shopping around for a new location because the Niagara region doesnt like to invest in anything for locals. If we needed a new million dollar tourist welcome center contruction would start tomorrow. I love it when Ted Salci comes on the ice so I can boo him. I cant believe we have "boss hog" as our mayor. Have any of you ever noticed the actual constuction of our barn. The roof is made completely of 2x4 s stood up on edge. One of my only consistent complaints about the jack is that everyone from the box office entrance gets bottle necked through a gauntlet of merchandisers. I really dont like to be led like cattle.

Sadly, I share the same opinion as you, on some things. I also fully expect the Dogs to move after their 5-year lease is up. I know Burkie has been quoted as saying he would stay past the 5-years even if a new arena is not built, however, I really think that that is simply public posturing.

Everyone knows that this team needs a new 4,000 seat arena to survive in this area. And I think we also all know that this city cannot afford to build a new arena, with private money.

So I am going to keep buying my season tickets, and enjoy going to the game and supporting the team, until, I believe, one day, they have to move due to economics. :y1:

I REALLY REALLY hope I am wrong though! :w00t:

ps. if the team does move to Niagara Falls one day, I really don't consider that as "leaving"...its still in the region, so no biggie for me.

[strohs]

I love it when Ted Salci comes on the ice so I can boo him. I cant believe we have "boss hog" as our mayor. Have any of you ever noticed the actual constuction of our barn. The roof is made completely of 2x4 s stood up on edge. One of my only consistent complaints about the jack is that everyone from the box office entrance gets bottle necked through a gauntlet of merchandisers. I really dont like to be led like cattle.

Salci does look like Boss Hogg...lol...good call!

I've said this before, will say it again, many people need to stay away from the front of the arena. If your seats happen to be in the end of the arena where the Dogs shoot twice, and you're a season ticket holder, you can use entry's at that end of the arena...and the concessions under section A are a lot less busy than at the front of the arena....

I sit in Section B, and to be honest, there's not much need for me to ever go to the front of the arena, so I rarely do. And when I do, I actually get a smoking pass, go outside, walk along the side of the arena, and then go in the front doors, hand in my smoking pass, and go up the stairs!

:11:

[Chooch]

For many years in Niagara Falls if you had advanced tickets you could sneak into a side door avoiding the crowds, so I tried doing this at the Jack only being told it's for seasons ticket holders only, hence the bottleneck at the front. I don't mind the front, I don't find it that bad but I also like to watch the game at the far end of the rink and it would be nice to have an entrance there as well for those who already have tickets in hand. Then again I'm sure the thinking is to have everyone entering to walk by all the snack bars and merchandise, it's just smart business on the owners side.

[AlphaDog]

As far as the IceDogs moving after their lease is up, I can think of at least ONE good thing that might keep them from moving: what other city in Ontario would support a team better than us? You can cross out anything in the GTA - they just dont' seem to like hockey. Every other mid-sized to large city already has a team. Ok, maybe North Bay and Thunder Bay if you want to move the team to the arctic, but they've had teams in the past that have failed I believe.

SO where would they move?

And I don't think a 4000 seat arena would be worth building. If you're going to expand it has to be a worthwhile expansion - expanding your sellouts by just another 855 tickets isn't going to do much - especially considering the extra $ required to run a modern facility.

[Chooch]

Personally I would like to see a rink with no more then 4500-5000 seats as something bigger would be a waste. Larger events will seek out the soon to be built convention center, and it's much more exciting to watch a game in a packed arena then in one with hundreds of empty seats. (cough*Missy*cough) :)

[AlphaDog]

Personally I would like to see a rink with no more then 4500-5000 seats as something bigger would be a waste. Larger events will seek out the soon to be built convention center, and it's much more exciting to watch a game in a packed arena then in one with hundreds of empty seats. (cough*Missy*cough) :)

True - but if we could sell out 5500 or 6000 every night, and have thunderous crowds cheering and jeering, those extra 1500 tickets would be a welcome financial boost.

I think first they have to get the ENTIRE region going behind the team. That gives you a crowd base of almost half a million people. Of course, your average Joe who has a family and isn't a hockey nut like the people on here, won't treck from Ft. Erie, Port Colbourne, Wainfleet, Grimsby, etc... twice a week to watch. But if we can get big interest in the Falls, and Welland, those 2 cities are like another St. Catharines added. So there shouldn't be any reason why we can't double 3000 a game to go to a nice modern rink with comfy seats, nice snack bars spread out, and what nots. I think if people knew they could get to the rink, park their car, sit in comfy seats and leave in a comfortable manner, you'd see a LOT more of the average joes coming out to catch a game on a regular basis.

[Chooch]

True - but if we could sell out 5500 or 6000 every night, and have thunderous crowds cheering and jeering, those extra 1500 tickets would be a welcome financial boost.
Yes that would be great, but growing up in Niagara makes me think 6000 fans per game is a big "if." (Maybe in the playoffs). I really hope you're right about those numbers but I just can't see it happening, call it a hunch. I think 4500 average is a much more realistic number. My thinking is that if the new rink, if we ever do get one, should have at least 6000 seats, but only if it is going to be the premier facility in the region for sports, conventions and shows. But like I said earlier we will soon have a convention building that could fit roughly 10,000 for large events, leaving me to think that an arena that large would just be too big. I always try to look at the region as one large city and feel that a new rink shouldn't be made too big as many might see that as competition for the major events coming here in the future. Leave the bigger shows for the bigger building and enjoy watching hockey in a smaller packed house.

[AlphaDog]

Yes that would be great, but growing up in Niagara makes me think 6000 fans per game is a big "if." (Maybe in the playoffs). I really hope you're right about those numbers but I just can't see it happening, call it a hunch. I think 4500 average is a much more realistic number. My thinking is that if the new rink, if we ever do get one, should have at least 6000 seats, but only if it is going to be the premier facility in the region for sports, conventions and shows. But like I said earlier we will soon have a convention building that could fit roughly 10,000 for large events, leaving me to think that an arena that large would just be too big. I always try to look at the region as one large city and feel that a new rink shouldn't be made too big as many might see that as competition for the major events coming here in the future. Leave the bigger shows for the bigger building and enjoy watching hockey in a smaller packed house.

And of course the best thing to do would be build an arena for the size you need now - BUT LEAVE ROOM FOR EXPANSION in the future if sales dictate a need for it. As long as their planning includes easy future expansion, then a smaller rink is fine.

But realistically - all this new arena talk I post is just 'dream talk'. I can't see the city ever getting a new rink. It didn't happen with our old OHL teams, it didn't happen with our AHL team. And now the city (and region) is entering some of the worst economic times it's seen. If anything was ever going to be built, I think it would have been back when GM was in its golden years of the 80's and the Saints were playing here. Everyone had good paying jobs, the smaller industries that worked with GM were all going strong too. NOw everything's closing up. Doesn't look like the kind of environment people want to invest in right now, especially for a hockey rink. So, I like to dream and post about a nice new big 5000-6000 seat rink to play in, but realistically I don't see it ever happening. The crowds for the Dogs are great - NOW. What about when they don't have a strong team like this year. What about the years they're playing like an Erie or a Sudbury - will people still come out then? I think not. I HOPE so, but don't think so. If I was Bill B. I'd be waiting for a few of those type years to happen so I could REALLY get an idea of the type of support, because you can't base anything on a team's first year in the area and add on top of that, that it's a strong team.