Your opinion on the Dean McAmmond Hit

[GoDogsGo]

Well... being a hockey trainer level 2... and watching this hit...I cant help but say kick Steve Downie out for life. This was a pre-planned act and he should be punished for it. McAmmond did not even have the puck when he was hit. Downie saw that he was comming around with no puck, left his feet, elbow out and smoked him. This type of blatant behaviour has no place in hockey. Dont get me worng... I love hits, and fights...but this type of stuff is tottaly uncalled for.

Downie is a Coward plain and simple..
Here is the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=322zqTkL0-c

[AlphaDog]

I remember seeing Downie play for Peterborough. The playoff Petes game I went to a couple years ago, he was in the penalty box right next to us.

To his credit, even I didn't see that the Ottawa player didn't have the puck until the 3rd time I watched it. His pass out front was easy to miss. He did leave his feet so you could call that, but other than that I think it was just a case of McAmmond getting caught with his head down.

Plus, after all, it's an OTTAWA player - the rest of the league should be able to pretty much do what they want to them. :) :)

But seriously, I don't think it was that bad on the part of the Downie. You see a guy coming around behind the net with his head down, that's a juicy opportunity that players dream about.

[GoDogsGo]

his head wasnt down... he turned it so he wouldnt get hit face on...i think its obviouse that Downie made him a target...its the same thing as hitting from behind...

Look how long it takes for the hit after the puck gets passed...

[WellandDogsFan]

Should Downie be punished for the hit? Absolutely. But I dont think he should be thrown out of hockey. In my opinion, there have been far more viscous hits in the game over the last few years. Downie will probably get 10-15 games for this hit, and I think that would be an appropriate punishment.

Heard just a little while ago that McAmmond did not suffer any broken bones, so that is good news. Hopefully he will make a full recovery.

[GoDogsGo]

i think he will recover fine...
downie laughed after he did it...he's a discrace ...

[WellandDogsFan]

Laughing after a hit like that is a sign of immaturity... I believe it was McGratten that said Downie will get his due...The kid better keep his head up next time he plays Ottawa.

[GoDogsGo]

ya... they are pissed... and he does deserve his own... but not a cheap hit...

[WellandDogsFan]

ya... they are pissed... and he does deserve his own... but not a cheap hit...

Agreed. Isnt retribution a good thing (in hockey) lol

[trooper]

kicking him out for life is a little harsh, i would give him a couple games

[strohs]

eeks, I'm a flyers fan, and I gotta say, that was a cheap hit...I hate when darcy tucker jumps off of his feet when he hits somone (which seems to happen every time he hits someone), so, I gotta say, downie launching himself off his feet, to hit the guy with a shoulder to the head, is dirty dirty dirty.

He's going to get suspended probably, although, I hear he's ticketed for the AHL anyways...McGratton will want a piece of him, however, Downie isn't a fighter, so, he'll probably just turtle, and McGratton will have to get a piece of some one else.

Dirty hit though, not late, but dirty, in that he lept off his feet to hit him.

[AlphaDog]

I think it's a natural movement for shorter guys to jump. The need to make their shoulders level with their opponents otherwise they're going to end up flat on their rear ends each time. Throwing your shoulders into a guy's center of gravity who's half a foot taller of you isn't going to do much to him, so shorter guys tend to jump up to their taller opponents to get a better hit.

Still, it's not allowed and should be called every time. If you're too small to hit the bigger players you shouldn't do it.

[GoDogsGo]

Posted: 12:14 AM by Bob McKenzie TSN.ca

Here we go again.

The NHL regular season hasn't even commenced yet and we are already forced to re-open the debate on heads shots, thanks to Steve Downie's devastating hit on Dean McAmmond.

Anyone who regularly follows this space knows where I stand on it. The NHL, it says here, is not doing nearly enough to discourage hits to the head, but in the broad context of that debate, I'll put the soap box away
(for now anyway) and instead focus strictly on this particular hit.

First thing, I was in the building at ScotiaBank Place so my take on it is clearly influenced by seeing the hit live and not being able to see as many angles of the replays as I normally would. Whether that makes me more qualified or less qualified, I don't know.

All I know is that people will debate the issues they usually debate on these types of hits.

Was it late? The Senators says yes, that McAmmond had dished the puck well before Downie hammered him. My sense, both in terms of live action and a quick look at a slow-motion replay, is that it wasn't a ridiculously late hit.

Did Downie leave his feet before making impact? The Senators says yes, big time. My limited viewing of replays is inconclusive, but our boys back at the shop at TSN looked at it frame by frame and said Downie's feet may have come up slightly before impact but it was not a huge leap by any standards, although Downie's airborne body AFTER the hit certainly created the impression Downie left his feet.

Did Downie use his forearm or elbow or shoulder to hit McAmmond in the head? Again, it's apparently open to debate if you look at it frame by frame. The Senators and many others say it was an elbow. Others suggest the elbow was nicely tucked in and he used his shoulder to deliver a devastating blow to the head, which in the eyes of the NHL is just fine and dandy so long as it wasn't late, it wasn't interference, etc. It's often a tough argument because where does the forearm end and the elbow begin, where does the elbow end and the shoulder begin.

But in this case, this time around, none of it matters a bit. And that's because there is one aspect of it that is so overwhelmingly obvious the rest of it is inconsequential. And that is, quite simply, Steven Downie was looking to take off McAmmond's head and inflict damage, his protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.

It was obvious in the building and if you look beyond the isolated clip of Downie hitting McAmmond, it's obvious there on tape, too.

Moments before Downie's hit, he was pounded down to the ice and face-first into the boards by Sens' defenceman Christoph Schubert. When Downie, a blue-chip prospect who plays the game on the edge and often beyond it, got up, it was evident to one and all who knows hockey, who knows Downie, who knows anything, that he was going to seek payback.

Immediately.

The minute he stood up and raced back into the play, I turned to TSN colleague Brent Wallace in the press box and said, “Watch Downie, he's
going to try to kill someone.”

I didn't mean kill in the literal sense, I was using hockey vernacular. The play returned to the Flyers' end, Downie was prowling and looking for someone. When the play went back up the ice into the Ottawa end, he was skating through the neutral zone. My eyes never left Downie from the moment he was hit by Schubert and what I'm describing here is my view of it, my recollection of it, my interpretation of it. This is not trial by video.

Just as he got over the centre red line, heading towards the offensive blueline, he clearly identified McAmmond in the far corner, beginning to move behind the net, and Downie sprinted at top speed. It was clear from way before the moment of contact what he was doing and what was going to happen if McAmmond didn't alter his course. It was like watching a high-speed auto accident unfold right in front of you.

To Downie's credit, I suppose, he did stop churning his legs and began to glide, mitigating the issue of a charge to some degree. But there was never any doubt in my mind what was in Downie's mind, he was going avenge the hit he took and McAmmond was going to pay the price .
And he did. If this was a court of law, the defense attorney would object to me presuming to know Downie's state of mind. Fair enough, but this isn't a court of law. It was so overwhelmingly obvious that Downie meant to do McAmmond harm. And the referee obviously agreed.

The on-ice call was appropriate. A match penalty. Match penalties are assessed for intent to injure and this one could not have been more
obvious.

Should McAmmond have had his head up? Sure. Any player coming out from behind the net in that circumstance should do that, just ask Patrick Eaves or Saku Koivu, who were victims of Pittsburgh's Colby Armstrong in an area of ice that is becoming known as Death Valley.

The debate will rage on in hockey whether these are acceptable hits or not. I will get e-mails telling me if I don't like tough hockey, take up curling. And that's fine. I'm not going to get into the broader context of the argument tonight. Let's keep the focus narrow – Downie on McAmmond.

But the NHL has to decide what it wants to do with this particular hit. Technically, Downie is already suspended indefinitely, pending a review by the league.

I would be surprised if he doesn't get suspended, but whether it's for a couple of games or more than that, well, it's anyone's guess. Only Colin Campbell knows for sure whether Downie will be suspended and, if so, how many games.

To be honest, my greater concern is for McAmmond. Having had concussion problems in the past, most recently in Game 3 of the Cup final in June when Chris Pronger elbowed him in the head, you got the sickening feeling in the building that this hit had the potential to be career ending for a player like McAmmond.

Hopefully, he'll be fine, both in terms of resuming his career to say nothing of qualify of life for now and forever.

As for Downie, this isn't about persecuting him personally. I've known the kid since he played peewee hockey against a team I coached. I admire a lot about the young man who has had great hardship in his life. He's talented but he's also capable of being malicious and has clearly had issues in terms of discipline and behavior. And while we can all criticize him for that, the truth is those qualities, even the dark ones, are held in high regard in our sport. Hockey is, at times, a violent blood sport.

All things being equal, Downie was expected to start this season with the AHL Phantoms, but I couldn't help but wonder if after a hit like that, he actually did himself some good in terms of getting a roster spot with the NHL Flyers.

That will all play itself out in the days to come, as will the league's decision on whether to suspend him and, if so, for how many games. And then the debate will resume on what's a good hockey hit and what's not. And some people will say, Right on, Bob, and others will ask if my column comes in men's.

But on this night, in this instance, on this hit, there's no question about what happened and why it happened and to tell you the truth, it sort of sickens me.

[GoDogsGo]

interesting...take a look...

http://broadband.tsn.ca/tsn/?id=349&vid=17989

[RioBravo]

Eh I wouldn't throw him out of the league for it but he defiantly deserves a good 10 games for it.

[GoDogsGo]

TSN.ca Staff
9/27/2007 3:32:06 PM

Two days after being knocked out by a hit to the head from Flyers' Steve Downie (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/player_bio.asp?player_id=5180), Senators forward Dean McAmmond (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/player_bio.asp?player_id=1338) spoke to TSN at Scotiabank Place.

"I don't think I have concussion problems. I have a history of guys giving me traumatic blows to the head, that's what I have a problem with. I was lifeless there, I was pretty grateful that I'm pretty much normal know," McAmmond said.

The NHL is reviewing the incident but are not expected to take any action until they have a full report.

McAmmond was coming around the net in the second period of Tuesday night's exhibition game and had just released the puck when he was clobbered by the 20-year-old Downie. McAmmond was taken off on a stretcher.

The Senators forward was carried off on a stretcher, but the Senators announced yesterday that there were no fractures. Downie received a match penalty - which means an automatic and indefinite suspension pending a review.

Downie said Tuesday's hit wasn't premeditated and he did not intend to go for McAmmond's head.

"I didn't mean to hurt him and I hope he's OK," Downie said following the game. "My game's to hit and to finish the check. I'm just trying to earn a spot on the roster. It's part of my game and I apologize for him getting hurt. I thought I got him clean. Once we hit the boards after, I asked if he was okay."

McAmmond also had a concussion after a hit by Anaheim defenceman Chris Pronger (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/player_bio.asp?player_id=681) in Game 3 of the Stanley Cup final last June.

Senators head coach John Paddock believes the league needs to come down hard on Downie, who has yet to play a regular season game in the NHL.

"I think for the good of Steve Downey. He needs to be suspended for a long time. We were cheering for him the last two christmas times (World Junior Championships) and he was a big factor. We we're cheering his clean hits and we wouldn't be cheering for something like that.

"I think this kid is the kind of player every team in the league wants, but you have to have control. To me for him to be in the NHL when he is 24-years-old, I think the league takes probably the most important thing in his life away from him for a while, Paddock said.

"I think he is a young guy who unfortunatley we all know his history in the OHL and stuff probably hockey is the most important, take it away from him, so hopefully he remembers, I think it would be the best thing for him so he can be playing in the league when he is 24 years old."

Senators tough guy Brian McGratton who attempted to get Downie after the hit, issued a warning following the game Tuesday night.

"He'll get what's coming to him next time we play him, that's for sure." McGratton said.

When pressed Thursday morning about his comments, McGratton did not shy away.

"I don't beat around the bush. I'm not the guy who whips out cliche after cliche you are going to get a straight answer out of me. At least I'm telling him I'm going to do it I'm not going to blindside him or hit him from behind."

"That kid may get away with that stuff in junior but he won't get away with it in this league, not for long, I just hope he gets dealt with the right way."

[WellandDogsFan]

Does McGratton open himself up for suspension uttering threats like this?

[GoDogsGo]

the last line kinda of says it all... i havnt seen much of him play...or reviewed any tapes...but it seems that he has a bit of a history of this type of stuff... I may be wrong...

[GoDogsGo]

they make threats like that all the time... not this openly though...i think if he follows through and hurts him then he may get something too... it'll be interesting how this turns out... mind you...McAmmond will recover fine from this...doesnt minimize it...but I think it will be viewed differently than if he would be seriously hurt from the hit.

[WellandDogsFan]

they make threats like that all the time... not this openly though...i think if he follows through and hurts him then he may get something too... it'll be interesting how this turns out... mind you...McAmmond will recover fine from this...doesnt minimize it...but I think it will be viewed differently than if he would be seriously hurt from the hit.
But that is what I am talking about. Its all about the openness of the threat. On National TV. When/if the retaliation ever comes from McGratton, you can expect the league to take action against him.

[GoDogsGo]

good point... wait and see I guess... I wonder if stuff like this is in the NHL rule books..."off ice threats against another player"

[WellandDogsFan]

Thats a good question. I would assume if it isnt, there is a "conduct detrimental to hockey" clause in there somewhere.

[GoDogsGo]

link to the NHL rule book...

http://www.nhl.com/hockeyu/rulebook/alphaindex.html