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-   -   OHL findings Niagara Ice Dogs (http://forum.icedogfans.com/showthread.php?t=11340)

the dog 04-06-2022 01:26 PM

OHL findings Niagara Ice Dogs
 
https://ontariohockeyleague.com/arti...gs-hockey-club

three dog night 04-06-2022 01:32 PM

Not surprised by Billy surprise by Joey involvement.

strohs 04-06-2022 01:48 PM

OHL findings Niagara Ice Dogs
 
I do not mean to kick on people when they are down so believe me I am biting my tongue BIG TIME.

It appears that they did not learn anything from the OHLs prior investigation into the team?

Wow. I suspected one of them (BB) would be found guilty of whatever offense it was, I am honestly just surprised by the lack of intelligence overall and that BOTH of them are in trouble.

So I guess the boys dont have jobs anymore?
Do the boys pay Sr. Back for the fine?

It is a blessing in disguise that they are both out but now what? Does Daddy sell the team? Part of me thinks this is the final nail in the coffin of the Burke ownership here. Hopefully I am wrong we have a lot to be thankful for them. Would be a shame to see them flame out like this.

I edited this post as a CKTB news release leads the reader to believe that it was for derogatory comments made about women. Wow

Embarrassing.


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fishfan51 04-06-2022 02:03 PM

Wonder if mom and dad are proud.

Completely embarrassing.

Far cry from their anti bullying campaign from a few years ago.

NiceDawg 04-06-2022 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strohs (Post 137598)
It is a blessing in disguise that they are both out but now what? Does Daddy sell the team? Part of me thinks this is the final nail in the coffin of the Burke ownership here. Hopefully I am wrong we have a lot to be thankful for them. Would be a shame to see them flame out like this.

Embarrassing.

It has been a mixed bag of brilliance and defeat. Unifying Niagara's hockey scene around a St. Catharines-based team was genius. The Burkes brought an exciting product to the area and then transformed it into a juggernaut within the OHL. Financially and in the community, the IceDogs have done well.

On the other hand, family are expensive. You can't fire your family, you can only hope that they live up to your expectations and deliver. Skilled positions within a hockey club are attained through progressive responsibility and a proven track record. If you are going to make it as a coach or a GM in the world of junior hockey, you have to compete, you have to keep getting better every year. Sadly, if you are given the job without the diploma earned through the school of hard knocks, and with no fear of being dismissed, it is easy to believe you have earned it.

Lastly, politics is a tough game to play. In hockey, there is always a player who doesn't measure up and will take whatever avenue is available to succeed anyhow, or drag you down on their way out. This is an easy game for most successful politicians to play, maintain your ethics and transparency, take the high road, and never believe your own positive press. If you anticipate that everyone is looking for a way to topple you from your perch you'll be right often enough to justify a careful approach.

I have a lot of respect for Bill Burke Sr. I admire his approach and I respect him as a person, a businessman, a member of the community, and as a father. I do believe he tried to combine all of those elements together in one hockey club, and I feel sorry for him that his sons have let him down. I hope he comes to a workable solution to continue the Niagara IceDogs under his ownership, with a new HC and GM, or that he finds a suitable new owner, makes a mint off the sale of the team and is successful in his next venture.

fishfan51 04-06-2022 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiceDawg (Post 137600)
It has been a mixed bag of brilliance and defeat. Unifying Niagara's hockey scene around a St. Catharines-based team was genius. The Burkes brought an exciting product to the area and then transformed it into a juggernaut within the OHL. Financially and in the community, the IceDogs have done well.

On the other hand, family are expensive. You can't fire your family, you can only hope that they live up to your expectations and deliver. Skilled positions within a hockey club are attained through progressive responsibility and a proven track record. If you are going to make it as a coach or a GM in the world of junior hockey, you have to compete, you have to keep getting better every year. Sadly, if you are given the job without the diploma earned through the school of hard knocks, and with no fear of being dismissed, it is easy to believe you have earned it.

Lastly, politics is a tough game to play. In hockey, there is always a player who doesn't measure up and will take whatever avenue is available to succeed anyhow, or drag you down on their way out. This is an easy game for most successful politicians to play, maintain your ethics and transparency, take the high road, and never believe your own positive press. If you anticipate that everyone is looking for a way to topple you from your perch you'll be right often enough to justify a careful approach.

I have a lot of respect for Bill Burke Sr. I admire his approach and I respect him as a person, a businessman, a member of the community, and as a father. I do believe he tried to combine all of those elements together in one hockey club, and I feel sorry for him that his sons have let him down. I hope he comes to a workable solution to continue the Niagara IceDogs under his ownership, with a new HC and GM, or that he finds a suitable new owner, makes a mint off the sale of the team and is successful in his next venture.

I agree with this. However, I'm also on the other side of it. This team is stained in the eyes of the league and other organizations and deservedly so. It needs new ownership to get out from under this. Between getting caught "not paying players" and this and the way the head scout behaves, this organization is heading down the same dysfunctional road as the Flint Firebirds.

The Burkes, brought junior hockey back to Niagara. They did an amazing job in uniting the region. They built a great fanbase, got a new arena built (the jewel of St.Catharines IMO). They've done so much for the city/region. But, unfortunately the bad has outweighed the good by a large margin lately. It's time to move on and sell.

Dogs Enthusiast 104 04-06-2022 03:57 PM

Guessing a lot of people are somewhat happy.

Maybe the Doug Hamilton rumour was part of this.

Does anyone know if they are trying to appeal the decision or is this the end of it?

retired/sectionJ 04-06-2022 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogs Enthusiast 104 (Post 137603)
Guessing a lot of people are somewhat happy.

Maybe the Doug Hamilton rumour was part of this.

Does anyone know if they are trying to appeal the decision or is this the end of it?

In my opinion, this is a done deal.

NiceDawg 04-06-2022 05:13 PM

Based on the contents of the chat, it would be impossible to argue it did not violate OHL policy.

Paws and Reflect 04-06-2022 05:19 PM

OHL ruling
 
As a former 10 year seasons ticket holder for our Niagara IceDogs I am disappointed that all the good work and regional support the Burkes have created will now be overshadowed by these findings. It has become increasing easy these days with digital media and accessibility that these types of situations are being revealed more frequently. We just have to look back several months to then coach John Gruden of the Las Vegas Raiders of the NFL being suspended and fired after inflammatory emails that had been sent several years ago. Everything said and printed has a digital footprint that remains for a very long time. As far as what lies ahead for our team that is definitely fodder for conversation. Bill Burke Sr. could conceivably decide to take on the General Managers job on paper and still effectively have Joey endorse and provide consultation. How could you ever police that? I hope the Ice Dogs go in a different direction and hire a coach and general manager that have the personal experience and even an NHL pedigree behind there name so that the Ice Dogs can once again get some quality players and become strong contenders once again. Everyone likes a good comeback story, lets hope this bump in the road is just a minor blip that we can overcome.

poochlover 04-06-2022 05:38 PM

Maybe Denise could be the coach and Billy jr could watch from home and give her tips through an ear piece!!!

Dawg Tired 04-06-2022 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retired/sectionJ (Post 137604)
In my opinion, this is a done deal.

If the last sanctioning of this team is used as a pattern for this one...

Joey and Billy will appeal.

The league will agree to half of the fine and half of the time before reinstatement.

Nobody will walk away happy.

poochlover 04-06-2022 06:31 PM

If the Burkes dont own the team....does it matter when they are or if they are reinstated. Its over for them nobody will touch these 2. Publish the Snap Chat!! Lets see what the angels had to say!!

the dog 04-06-2022 07:54 PM

Tsn has reviewed that exchange. Which also included other team employees
In the discussion, the burkes used coarse and profane language to describe a female icedogs colleague.

Dogs Enthusiast 104 04-06-2022 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the dog (Post 137610)
Tsn has reviewed that exchange. Which also included other team employees
In the discussion, the burkes used coarse and profane language to describe a female icedogs colleague.

Apparently using the C word. Which is horrible.

150k Ö.. deserved it.

NiceDawg 04-06-2022 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the dog (Post 137610)
Tsn has reviewed that exchange. Which also included other team employees
In the discussion, the burkes used coarse and profane language to describe a female icedogs colleague.

And others in their organization and elsewhere in the OHL in a disparaging and derogatory manner not in accordance with OHL policy or the human rights code. I would have bet money that Billy Jr. was the bigger offender, and lost.

three dog night 04-06-2022 09:55 PM

Sad way to get in the news .

NachoLou 04-07-2022 10:27 AM

Looks like the true colours have come out.

poochlover 04-07-2022 11:28 AM

Hopefully it wasn't about their spouses(who are female colleagues). The family must be very proud!!

three dog night 04-07-2022 01:09 PM

https://niagaraicedogs.net/article/s...and-joey-burke

strohs 04-07-2022 02:23 PM

OHL findings Niagara Ice Dogs
 
I saw an image of the group chat it is on 610cktb website or Twitter feed

Its hard to read everything because some names are blocked out

But geez if that gets you a two year ban, wtf kind of world do we live in. Oh wait a minute I just saw the C word tossed out right at the end by BB.

Then JB piles on, throwing some of their own staff under the bus. Yikes

Couldnt these two just have like picked up the phone and vented ? Lol. Guess that would have happened twenty years ago.

Part of me feels badly for them as this must be gut wrenching punishment to take ? Then part of me says that in this day and age it was bound to happen.

I wonder who leaked it, must be someone in that group chat . . .


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NiceDawg 04-07-2022 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Burke and Joey Burke
We are devastated by the sanctions brought down upon us and the Niagara IceDogs by the Ontario Hockey League. Certain media outlets are taking liberties speculating on what was said and about whom. To be clear, we were venting in a private hockey staff WhatsApp group chat about the perceived lack of coverage from the league after a win. Unfortunately, we did use profane language, but it was not racial in any sense, nor was it abusive or directed at any IceDogs staff member (male or female) or any players. Embarrassed by our text, we deleted the message right away and apologized directly to our female staff for a vulgar slang word that was used. We also apologized to everyone involved in the chat for the language and tone, long before we knew the chat was leaked. It should also be noted that in the 14 years that we have worked for the team, we have never had a complaint brought against us for any inappropriate language or behaviour towards any staff or player. Although we are heartbroken, we understand that our positions within the team and the community should have held us to a higher moral standard and for that we are truly sorry. We take great pride in the diverse makeup of our team and our alumni, and we have always strived to create a safe and respectful environment both inside the dressing room and the office as well. We are very proud of the team that weíve put together and have all faith that this team will be competing for the Memorial Cup in 2 years and we wish our players, staff and all IceDogs fans nothing but success.

Ooops... Rule #1 in responding to a scandal, apologize first! This reads more like a condemnation of the OHL rules and penalties, excuse making and rationalization, rather than contrition.

retired/sectionJ 04-07-2022 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiceDawg (Post 137637)
Ooops... Rule #1 in responding to a scandal, apologize first! This reads more like a condemnation of the OHL rules and penalties, excuse making and rationalization, rather than contrition.

Going down kicking and fighting. Admitting that we screwed up is apparently not in their vocabulary. HM..

NachoLou 04-07-2022 03:00 PM

Part of the statement read: "nor was it abusive or directed at any IceDogs staff member (male or female) or any players."

I'm sure many of have seen the conversation by now. Joey says ******* **** named Nikki! Enough of this **** she is a bigger *** then our horse**** scouting staff[/b]"

I guess the scouting staff isn't a member? I guess "***" is racial, but pretty homophobic.

Shameful, sell and get out of town. You've embarrassed the Niagara hockey community on a National level twice now.

5 for fighting 04-07-2022 03:20 PM

Does anyone have a link to the screenshot of the conversation. Apparently the unedited version is now on Twitter.

fishfan51 04-07-2022 03:32 PM

LMAO. It wasn't racist, just misogynistic and homophobic.
That wasn't an apology.
That was them trying to justify themselves to ticket buying fanbase.
No dice.

Dogs Enthusiast 104 04-07-2022 04:49 PM

Damn, now they might need an apology for the apology.

Oh well. I did love the forward looking part at the end and clearly they are looking at the team peaking in two years.

retired/sectionJ 04-07-2022 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishfan51 (Post 137641)
LMAO. It wasn't racist, just misogynistic and homophobic.
That wasn't an apology.
That was them trying to justify themselves to ticket buying fanbase.
No dice.

Once again Fishfan, you are bang on.

Dogs Enthusiast 104 04-07-2022 05:06 PM

Oh boy.


I don't know if this is real or not. So be warned.

https://imgur.com/a/TPQvEWO

three dog night 04-07-2022 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogs Enthusiast 104 (Post 137645)
Oh boy.


I don't know if this is real or not. So be warned.

https://imgur.com/a/TPQvEWO

That what I read just donít what game they are preferring too.

Dogs Enthusiast 104 04-07-2022 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by three dog night (Post 137646)
That what I read just donít what game they are preferring too.

This one maybe?

https://ontariohockeyleague.com/game...2/play_by_play

5 for fighting 04-07-2022 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogs Enthusiast 104 (Post 137645)
Oh boy.


I don't know if this is real or not. So be warned.

https://imgur.com/a/TPQvEWO

Wow, that is much worse than I imagined. How could they talk about their employees like that. That is very upsetting.

As well their statement makes things worse since they deny that they said anything abusive about a staff member. To me it means they are not sorry at all and are just trying to cover things up.

three dog night 04-07-2022 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5 for fighting (Post 137648)
Wow, that is much worse than I imagined. How could they talk about their employees like that. That is very upsetting.

As well their statement makes things worse since they deny that they said anything abusive about a staff member. To me it means they are not sorry at all and are just trying to cover things up.

I think the female mention was an OHL employee couldn’t figure out Joey comment about our scouts thou he was always praising the draft choices.

strohs 04-07-2022 05:47 PM

OHL findings Niagara Ice Dogs
 
So are/were Kyle P and Nikki actually icedog employees ?

When I read it I thought they were OHL employees as I only read the image that had things blocked out.

Then JB throws his scouting staff under the bus? Sheesh you are the one that hired these guys no?

I really do not see how they can honestly be considered to run this team again.

Its weird reading the unedited version versus the redacted version. The redacted version always had me guessing exactly who they were taking about .


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strohs 04-07-2022 05:59 PM

OHL findings Niagara Ice Dogs
 
Would it not be ironic if two years from now the Dogs win the OHL championship and JB and BB are still on the outside looking in?

Oh my that would really be incredible lol

I dunno where to go from here

I will still get my season tickets and hopefully there is not a lot of blowback here from the die hard fans in cancelling season tickets

I hope this could be a major catalyst for change in this organization. Maybe this is the last we see of these two?

Hopefully it is a shot across the bow to the Burkes that their kids have failed them miserably.

As Vince Neil once sang,

change, now its time for change, nothing stays the same, now its time for change . . . Great song BTW

Could you imagine what other stuff these two have complained about but have not been busted for? They are this upset about a highlight reel package ? OMFG. To me that is really the thing that gets me . . . They are going bonkers about an unsatisfactory highlight package. I have always thought BB had a short fuse from his antics on the bench so this is the ultimate confirmation of that.


Wow


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VdbleU 04-07-2022 06:05 PM

Female mentioned in JB's text is an Icedog employee
https://niagaraicedogs.net/business-staff
Based on the original statements, i to thought it was an OHL employee until reading the screen shot.
How absolutely disgusting to direct such words to any female and on top of that one of your own employees.
How can they even show their face around the office. I have been a season ticket holder sicne '07 and if these guys come back I will never attend another game.

I hope the Burke's come to their senses and do the honourable thing - SELL THE TEAM

5 for fighting 04-07-2022 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strohs (Post 137650)
So are/were Kyle P and Nikki actually icedog employees ?

When I read it I thought they were OHL employees as I only read the image that had things blocked out.

Then JB throws his scouting staff under the bus? Sheesh you are the one that hired these guys no?

I really do not see how they can honestly be considered to run this team again.

Its weird reading the unedited version versus the redacted version. The redacted version always had me guessing exactly who they were taking about .


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According to the Icedogs website, there is a Nikki that works for the Icedogs. Not sure about Kyle.

5 for fighting 04-07-2022 06:13 PM

Take a look at the Icedogs Twitter feed where they posted the statement from Billy and Joey. Then take a look at the comments under the tweet. There is no way Billy or Joey could ever come back. It appears many fans have turned against the Icedogs. I really donít think they can recover from this. What a sad day.

three dog night 04-07-2022 06:24 PM

All this because lack of hi-lights of a game.

Dogs Enthusiast 104 04-07-2022 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by three dog night (Post 137656)
All this because lack of hi-lights of a game.

Yep, seems like a huge over reaction.

I feel sorry for Nikki.


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