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  #51  
Old 04-23-2019, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by fishfan51 View Post
It was one transaction, not two. But, even if you want to go with that, they should have stopped at the Studnicka trade then and not spent picks on Brassard. My point remains the same, win or lose, they gave up too much to acquire those two players.
Did Hamilton overpay for Robert Thomas last year? Would the IceDogs have traded Moore for Brassard and picks? The answer to the acceptable price of that trade and the value of those players lies in those answers.
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  #52  
Old 04-23-2019, 03:13 PM
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Did Hamilton overpay for Robert Thomas last year? Would the IceDogs have traded Moore for Brassard and picks? The answer to the acceptable price of that trade and the value of those players lies in those answers.
Can you say for sure what picks went with Moore for Studnicka and what picks went for Brassard?
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  #53  
Old 04-23-2019, 03:22 PM
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Can you say for sure what picks went with Moore for Studnicka and what picks went for Brassard?
Lleyton Moore, 2nd - (2020, 2021) and a 3rd - (2022) for Jack Studnicka
Similar Trade: Robert Thomas was traded last year for Connor McMichael and 2 – 2nd and 1 - 3rd (which turned into another 2nd)

2nd - (2022) and 3rd - (2023, 2024) for Matt Brassard.
Similar Trade: Mattinen traded to Oshawa for 2nd and a 3rd.

Did Hamilton overpay for Robert Thomas last year? Would the IceDogs have traded Moore for Brassard and picks? The answer to the acceptable price of that trade and the value of those players lies in those answers.
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  #54  
Old 04-23-2019, 03:40 PM
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Lleyton Moore, 2nd - (2020, 2021) and a 3rd - (2022) for Jack Studnicka
Similar Trade: Robert Thomas was traded last year for Connor McMichael and 2 – 2nd and 1 - 3rd (which turned into another 2nd)

2nd - (2022) and 3rd - (2023, 2024) for Matt Brassard.
Similar Trade: Mattinen traded to Oshawa for 2nd and a 3rd.

Did Hamilton overpay for Robert Thomas last year? Would the IceDogs have traded Moore for Brassard and picks? The answer to the acceptable price of that trade and the value of those players lies in those answers.
IMO, if that's the way you're breaking down the picks, I would say that's is a fair comparison for Stundicka/Thomas.

I would say they overpaid for Brassard. Mattinen is the better player at both ends of the ice. So, the Dogs gave up and extra third round pick for the lesser player in Brassard. They gave up more and got less. In my book they overpaying. They should have been giving up less for Brassard than Mattinen... instead they gave up more.

If Brassard came in a played well, (I don't know why they would expect that based on his performance with Oshawa this year) it would justify the extra third. But, he didn't. He came in and played as he did all year with the Gens. (poorly)

Last edited by fishfan51; 04-23-2019 at 03:41 PM.
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  #55  
Old 04-23-2019, 04:00 PM
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IMO, if that's the way you're breaking down the picks, I would say that's is a fair comparison for Stundicka/Thomas.

I would say they overpaid for Brassard. Mattinen is the better player at both ends of the ice. So, the Dogs gave up and extra third round pick for the lesser player in Brassard. They gave up more and got less. In my book they overpaying. They should have been giving up less for Brassard than Mattinen... instead they gave up more.

If Brassard came in a played well, (I don't know why they would expect that based on his performance with Oshawa this year) it would justify the extra third. But, he didn't. He came in and played as he did all year with the Gens. (poorly)
Fair enough. I’d agree they gave up one too many thirds for Brassard. IMO Marttinen is weak. Very slow and terrible in his own end, especially his pass out of his end. He is physical and that is it. Wasted picks by Oshawa.
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  #56  
Old 04-23-2019, 04:05 PM
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Oshawa used some of our picks to upgrade their team
Actually, Oshawa used all but one 3rd, not some, of the picks they acquired in that trade to upgrade their team.
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  #57  
Old 04-23-2019, 04:41 PM
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Fair enough. I’d agree they gave up one too many thirds for Brassard. IMO Marttinen is weak. Very slow and terrible in his own end, especially his pass out of his end. He is physical and that is it. Wasted picks by Oshawa.
Brassard wasn't slow? C'mon! You're the stats guy, how do you explain Brassard -4 on the highest scoring team in the OHL? It wasn't because he was good in his own end.
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  #58  
Old 04-23-2019, 04:44 PM
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Actually, Oshawa used all but one 3rd, not some, of the picks they acquired in that trade to upgrade their team.
It's the new math:

all minus one = some

all minus one = most but not all
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  #59  
Old 04-23-2019, 04:51 PM
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Brassard wasn't slow? C'mon! You're the stats guy, how do you explain Brassard -4 on the highest scoring team in the OHL? It wasn't because he was good in his own end.
I didn’t say that Brassard was not slow. I was merely pointing out that Mattinen is also slow. If you’ve watched enough of Mattinen’s games you would know he is NOT very good. You have to admit that?
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  #60  
Old 04-23-2019, 05:31 PM
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No, it was bad because Brassard was awful. Moore played better than him and he's 5 years younger.


I couldn’t believe how bad Brassard was

Skating was terrible

Hands of stone on the PP

Watching him lug the puck up the ice on the PP was painful.


He would take forever to move the puck on the PP once he was in the offensive zone

They dropped the ball scouting and acquiring him IMO



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