The Buy or Sell debate (posts from other threads moved here)

[AlphaDog]

I'm not sure what the confusion is about trading them.

Either we'll get full price for them or we'll get nothing. That's the whole point of a conditional pick. The conditions being "if that ohl player plays in the ohl". If he stay in the NHL, we don't get anything for him: we don't get picks AND we don't get to have him in our lineup anyway.

If S/R/H *do* come back to the OHL (of course, not all 3 will), we could get HUUUGE picks for them. Either way, they're GONE at the end of this year.

Are you saying you wouldn't trade having them for a few more months for some top draft picks that we'll have for 4-5 years???

Hmm... having them on our team for a few more months, maybe getting to 3rd round in playoffs (fat chance), OR... setting up this team for being competitive for the long term. It's not even a decision to me, it's just plain common sense.

If anyone thinks those 3 players (and realistically it will only be Ritchie playing for us) have what it takes to get past the top teams in our conference, then go up against London, you're kidding yourself! I've said it 2-3 times already on here: the number of players we'd have to get to put a competitive team on the ice this year would be astronomical. We'd have to give away a LOT of our future picks in order to get in return what would be able to win anything big this year.

Myself, I'm not happy with making it 1 or 2 rounds into the playoffs each year, yet never going deep or winning it all.

I'm PERFECTLY content with selling off our stars every handful of years, and being near the bottom of the pack for a year or two each time, if it means making a run all the way to (and through) the OHL title once every 4-5 years. That's the way I'd run the team, and I think that's the way Marty is running it too.

You take away those top 3 players of ours (and we'll be loosing anywhere from 1 to all of them) and this is a 500, maybe 6-wins-in-last-10 team. Nobody's going to sell so much of the future to try and make a team like that win it all. In order to make a run for it, you have to already have most of the pieces in place. And if you think that making a run for it against the CURRENT rosters of other teams is what we'll be doing, think again: all the top teams in the league are going to be wheeling and dealing to make their teams better right now.

Anyway, this debate will be over in a day or two, with the trade deadline coming to a close. I'm sure Marty will do the right thing for what's best for this team over the long haul. I don't think he's going to destroy the next 5 years of the Dogs to make it halfway through the playoffs this year.

Edit: I always mention trading Strome/Hamilton/Ritchie for picks but what I mean all those times is "picks or good young rookies". I'd be perfectly happy with a trade for someone who is a good prospect. Not just "picks" as I always type.

[hockey123]

Problem is anyone that is going to trade for them needs them or someone else to get them where they're trying to go. No team is going to give full value for a maybe even with conditions, they'll use those assets to acquire someone else.

[Boyski]

I 100% agree AlphaDog. There is more then our BIG 3 that we can move also, that would help another team in there attempt, and we can get pieces back for the future of this organization.

We'll see what occurs. Strange things happen!!

[g_squad]

That sounds great in theory AD but what GM in their right mind is going to want to take a flyer on giving up a number of conditional draft picks and get absolutely nothing in return if the player is not returned to the OHL. If I was the GM that is trying to build a team for a deep run in the playoffs, I honestly don't think I would even look at any of S/R/H because the situation is simply to volatile. I would be more inclined to look at a slightly lower ranked player that I am sure to get and use my draft picks more wisely.

I know we all (or at least most of us) want the Dogs to get top trade value for our big guys so that we can start the rebuild process. However, we also need to look at this realistically and think of it from the other team perspective. They are not going to give us anything near what we think these guys are worth.

That being said, to get anything for these guys at this point is better than nothing and considering we didn't think we would have them at the start of the season, I say sell away and take what we can get!

[hockey123]

Theo's been dealt for Perlini. Barrie first rounder from this past draft.

[AlphaDog]

Originally Posted by hockey123

Problem is anyone that is going to trade for them needs them or someone else to get them where they're trying to go. No team is going to give full value for a maybe even with conditions, they'll use those assets to acquire someone else.

Of course nobody's going to give full value - that's why picks are "conditional" !

Example (PURELY example): We trade Strome to Owen Sound for a 1st round, and 2 second rounds, on the condition he plays in the OHL from say end of NHL training camp to end of OHL playoffs. If, during his '9 game' period in the NHL, he misses 1 month of the OHL schedule, that changes to 1st round and 1 2nd round. If he stays in the NHL for most of the OHL reg. season we only get 1 2nd round, if he stays in the NHL for good, we get nothing. ** ALL OF THIS IS JUST FOR EXAMPLE PURPOSES PEOPLE! PLEASE DON'T START POSTING SAYING "OH WE'D NEVER GET THAT FOR STROME" OR WHATEVER.. I'M JUST CREATING A HYPOTHETICAL EXAPMLE! *

As far as losing those assets to make trades elsewhere, that would be part of the conditions in other trades made. I agree, it's a HUGE trading mess for GMs right now, but I doubt any GM that wants a CHANCE at a Strome or Hamilton is going to say to himself "oh it's just too much work with all the conditions" and skip them entirely.

[hockey123]

Even with conditions they'd be lucky to get 25 cents on the dollar. I still think they can deal at least Ritchie for full value and maybe Strome for at least close to full value.

[hockey123]

http://www.niagarafallsreview.ca/201...es-for-icedogs

[VdbleU]

[quote=AlphaDog;71659]We trade Strome to Owen Sound for a 1st round, and 2 second rounds.....,

AD - you can't trade for 1st round "picks" in the O. Only in the Q & W. There's a window when you can trade them after they're drafted, but not as picks prior to draft. So the best you can ever get in picks trade value is a 2nd rounder - what's left over after the first 20 are chosen. Although that's not necessarily a bad thing. Link to interesting article on history of 1st round picks in the O http://lpunkari.wordpress.com/2012/0...l-draft-picks/

[notldogsfan]

Anyone hear anything new on Strome, Ritchie, or other players like Shipley? It would be so nice to get more assets. We already have a roster with potential for the arena opening, but I'd love to add more size on the back end. All of these players should be growing together in our system for the 2014/15 season

DiFruscia - Verhaeghe - Hiddink
Perlini - Maletta - XXXXX
Fitzmorris - Hughes - Wigle

Haydon - Graham
Mercer - Kelly

Moran