Niagara IceDogs Fan Forum !  

Search:     Photos: 23,743    Downloads: 1,637,305   Msgs Posted: 130,547   Thread Views: 27,307,134   Online Now: 113
Go Back   Niagara IceDogs Fan Forum ! > NIAGARA ICEDOGS Fan Forums > Niagara IceDogs - Fan Talk & News

Notices

Niagara IceDogs - Fan Talk & News Discussions posted by the fans about the Niagara IceDogs - talk about games, players, fights, news, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #261  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:17 AM
Blacksox's Avatar
Blacksox Blacksox is offline
Team Captain
 

Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,265
Thanks: 1,325
Thanked 3,252 Times in 1,619 Posts
Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by strohs View Post
Blacksox

This is why I think the dogs need a president of hockey operations (ideally unrelated to the Burke’s). Pretty safe to say that an astute OHL experienced Pres of Hockey Ops wouldn’t of wasted the assets on the Militec trade ...

Someone to over see and plan the direction of this team on a long-term basis

I’m sorry I don’t have the confidence in JB to plan it properly or to be shrewd enough in making the pitch for the home run deals

I just have no confidence he can do it

I hope I’m wrong believe me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Strohs, I agree hiring a President of Hockey Operations unrelated to the team would be a smart move.

“You learn more things going through failure than going through success,” said Burke. “Now we’re able to start our next build with the lessons we learned last season. We’re going to be back sooner rather than later.”

The first series of moves in this IceDogs rebuild appear to be the result of those “lessons learned”.

<> rebuilding from the goal out. High picks used to assemble a core of young defenseman.

<> drafting Adam Fantilli's brother 02 Luca (December birthdate). With the recent information on their relationship and desire to play together has to make you wonder.

<> drafting 02 Chanton (December birthdate). Makes him a 16 years old for NHL scouts - not draft eligible until 2021.

<> first year defenseman playing big minutes in all situations.

<> Paquette traded for 4 picks (actually players that can be part of this rebuild) in 2020 (04s) and 2021 (05s).

<> Setting the bar for an Akil Thomas trade at the only acceptable level (03). May end up being Lodnia aided, but just get it done.

***

Last edited by Blacksox; 10-16-2019 at 10:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Blacksox For This Useful Post:
  #262  
Old 10-16-2019, 11:41 AM
Blacksox's Avatar
Blacksox Blacksox is offline
Team Captain
 

Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,265
Thanks: 1,325
Thanked 3,252 Times in 1,619 Posts
Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 for fighting View Post
If Thomas is traded for a 03, logically it would make sense to also trade Tomasino for a 03...
No, that is not logical. Thomas is an 00 and Tomasino is an 01. If the IceDogs trade him this year for an 03 - they lose on both Tomasino and the acquired player's (03) tenure with the IceDogs - you essentially have an overlapping year between those traded player from Jan 2020 and Jan 2021.

First, the IceDogs lose a full year out of Tomasino - and then Niagara loses the 03 a year earlier than they would with an 04.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Blacksox For This Useful Post:
  #263  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:57 PM
fishfan51's Avatar
fishfan51 fishfan51 is offline
Resident OHL Expert
 

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,999
Thanks: 257
Thanked 2,925 Times in 1,233 Posts
fishfan51 is absolutely magnificent!fishfan51 is absolutely magnificent!fishfan51 is absolutely magnificent!fishfan51 is absolutely magnificent!fishfan51 is absolutely magnificent!fishfan51 is absolutely magnificent!fishfan51 is absolutely magnificent!fishfan51 is absolutely magnificent!fishfan51 is absolutely magnificent!fishfan51 is absolutely magnificent!fishfan51 is absolutely magnificent!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacksox View Post
No, that is not logical. Thomas is an 00 and Tomasino is an 01. If the IceDogs trade him this year for an 03 - they lose on both Tomasino and the acquired player's (03) tenure with the IceDogs - you essentially have an overlapping year between those traded player from Jan 2020 and Jan 2021.

First, the IceDogs lose a full year out of Tomasino - and then Niagara loses the 03 a year earlier than they would with an 04.
An elite first round OHL draft pick is likely to be a better player when he is nineteen than when he is eighteen. In a "go for it year" I'd rather have two elite 19 yr olds over an 18 and a 19 yr old. Get all the top end 03's you can your hands on.

The organization has shown they're interested putting all of their eggs in one basket every few years in hopes of a championship.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to fishfan51 For This Useful Post:
  #264  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:10 PM
Blacksox's Avatar
Blacksox Blacksox is offline
Team Captain
 

Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,265
Thanks: 1,325
Thanked 3,252 Times in 1,619 Posts
Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfan51 View Post
The organization has shown they're interested putting all of their eggs in one basket every few years in hopes of a championship.
“You learn more things going through failure than going through success,” said Burke. “Now we’re able to start our next build with the lessons we learned last season. We’re going to be back sooner rather than later.”

The first series of moves in this IceDogs rebuild appear to be the result of those “lessons learned”.

Fans should be embracing the IceDogs lessons learned and not assume or hope they do the same thing this time around. All moves to date point in a new direction. If Thomas is traded for an 03 and Tomasino for an 04, it will reconfirm a better long range plan is in place. Not sure why any Icedog fan would want them to repeat what they did in the past - and hope for Tomasino to be traded so all their eggs are in one basket
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Blacksox For This Useful Post:
  #265  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:56 PM
5 for fighting 5 for fighting is offline
2nd Line
 

Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 344
Thanks: 32
Thanked 309 Times in 147 Posts
5 for fighting has much to be proud of5 for fighting has much to be proud of5 for fighting has much to be proud of5 for fighting has much to be proud of5 for fighting has much to be proud of5 for fighting has much to be proud of5 for fighting has much to be proud of5 for fighting has much to be proud of5 for fighting has much to be proud of5 for fighting has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacksox View Post
No, that is not logical. Thomas is an 00 and Tomasino is an 01. If the IceDogs trade him this year for an 03 - they lose on both Tomasino and the acquired player's (03) tenure with the IceDogs - you essentially have an overlapping year between those traded player from Jan 2020 and Jan 2021.

First, the IceDogs lose a full year out of Tomasino - and then Niagara loses the 03 a year earlier than they would with an 04.
The only reason not to trade Tomasino this season is because the team is better this season with him. However trading him this season is best for our rebuild as trading him this season will:

1) allow us to get a first round 03 player. I don’t believe the IceDogs have ever had fewer picks in the first 5 rounds than this past draft. We only had a 1st and 3rd round pick and this is suppose to be a rebuild year for us. In contrast the rebuilding Guelph Storm had picks in each of the first 5 rounds. We are ridiculously low on high end 03 talent. But if we get a pair of first round 03 players in trades for Thomas and Tomasino that will rectify our poor draft this past spring.

2) get us more picks, which we desperately need. Plus trading him this season will allow us to get 2nd and 3rd round picks next draft, so we can load up on 04’s.

3) make it easier to get picks in 2021. The further away the draft pick, the easier it is to acquire. You want them to acquire three 2nd round picks in 2021 for Tomasino. Trading him this season makes that easier since the 2021 draft is two drafts away.

4) will ensure we get something for Tomasino. There is no guarantee he returns next season as he has an outside chance to make the NHL. If we don’t trade him this season and he doesn’t return, the IceDogs are in big trouble.

If you want to rebuild the IceDogs future, trade him this season. If you are just worried about getting a few more wins this season and don’t care about the future, keep him this season.

Last edited by 5 for fighting; 10-16-2019 at 02:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 5 for fighting For This Useful Post:
  #266  
Old 10-16-2019, 03:10 PM
NiceDawg's Avatar
NiceDawg NiceDawg is offline
Moderator
 

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 5,475
Thanks: 1,449
Thanked 3,461 Times in 1,892 Posts
NiceDawg is absolutely magnificent!NiceDawg is absolutely magnificent!NiceDawg is absolutely magnificent!NiceDawg is absolutely magnificent!NiceDawg is absolutely magnificent!NiceDawg is absolutely magnificent!NiceDawg is absolutely magnificent!NiceDawg is absolutely magnificent!NiceDawg is absolutely magnificent!NiceDawg is absolutely magnificent!NiceDawg is absolutely magnificent!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfan51 View Post
An elite first round OHL draft pick is likely to be a better player when he is nineteen than when he is eighteen. In a "go for it year" I'd rather have two elite 19 yr olds over an 18 and a 19 yr old. Get all the top end 03's you can your hands on.

The organization has shown they're interested putting all of their eggs in one basket every few years in hopes of a championship.
One of the earliest things I learned about OHL hockey was that championships were based on the play of the 19 year olds on your team.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NiceDawg For This Useful Post:
  #267  
Old 10-16-2019, 06:48 PM
Blacksox's Avatar
Blacksox Blacksox is offline
Team Captain
 

Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,265
Thanks: 1,325
Thanked 3,252 Times in 1,619 Posts
Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiceDawg View Post
One of the earliest things I learned about OHL hockey was that championships were based on the play of the 19 year olds on your team.
One would expect what you said to always be the case, but a look at the last four OHL years, we find examples of two championships that were won on the backs of the 18 year olds with the 19s playing a supporting role - and two where the 19 year olds carried the weight with the assistance of the 18s.

In 2016, London won as a result of the dominate play of their 18 year olds Marner, Tkachuk, Joulevi and Jones.

In 2017, Erie was led by a strong core of 19 year olds (e.g.,Cirelli, Strome and DeBrincat) – added by the following 18s: Taylor Raddysh, Maksimovich and Sambrook).

In 2018, Hamilton won as a result of the outstanding play of 18 year olds Robert Thomas (add M.Strome and M.Entwhistle). In the case of Thomas, he single-handedly carried the Hamilton Bulldogs to that OHL championship - in what was one of the most impressive individual playoffs performances.

In 2019, Guelph had a strong veteran presence (e.g Suzuki, Radcliffe, Samorukov, Phillips, etc…) with only a few 18s. Interestingly, of the last 4 teams that have won, Guelph had the greatest number of 19s – and most would agree were extremely lucky to win it all (down 0 - 3 to London; down 0 -3 to Saginaw; down 0 – 2 Ottawa).

It's common for fans and analyst to generalize how championships are won, but the facts is there is no one sure way to win a championship.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Blacksox For This Useful Post:
  #268  
Old 10-18-2019, 10:03 AM
Blacksox's Avatar
Blacksox Blacksox is offline
Team Captain
 

Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,265
Thanks: 1,325
Thanked 3,252 Times in 1,619 Posts
Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!
Default

Fantilli Watch
1 Sarnia 2 pts
2 Mississauga 4 pts
3 Kingston 5 pts
4 North Bay 6 pts
5 Guelph 6 pts
6 London 7 pts
7 Hamilton 8 pts
8 Niagara 9 pts
Reply With Quote
  #269  
Old 10-26-2019, 10:14 AM
Blacksox's Avatar
Blacksox Blacksox is offline
Team Captain
 

Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,265
Thanks: 1,325
Thanked 3,252 Times in 1,619 Posts
Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!Blacksox is absolutely magnificent!
Default

Enright Named to Canadian World U17 Hockey Challenge Roster
https://niagaraicedogs.net/article/e...allenge-roster

2019 World U17 Hockey Challenge taking place in Medicine Hat and Swift Current from Nov. 2-9.
Reply With Quote
  #270  
Old 10-26-2019, 04:45 PM
Thunder Hawk Thunder Hawk is offline
2nd Line
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Niagara Falls
Posts: 505
Thanks: 189
Thanked 244 Times in 135 Posts
Thunder Hawk has much to be proud ofThunder Hawk has much to be proud ofThunder Hawk has much to be proud ofThunder Hawk has much to be proud ofThunder Hawk has much to be proud ofThunder Hawk has much to be proud ofThunder Hawk has much to be proud ofThunder Hawk has much to be proud ofThunder Hawk has much to be proud of
Default

Not sure if it's official but looks like Saginaw has dealt Porco to Barrie in multi player & picks deal. Safe to say the idea for Saginaw is to flip the picks received for Porco for an impact player or impact OA . ..Lodnia could be a nice potential fit, American born as well. ..Just tossing up trade ideas.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) IceDogFans.com, 2007-2019