NIAGARA ICEDOGS’ HOCKEY

[Blacksox]

Jacob Paquette would be a huge boast to this rebuild. I’m surprised that he did not land an ELC immediately following the season. The longer this goes on – the less likely he is to get one this year, but will absolutely earn one in his OA season.

A return for Paquette, will most assuredly return the IceDogs 3 of the 6 – 2nd needed, for undoubtedly the best shutdown defenseman in the league next year.


RECOUPING TRADED DRAFT PICKS

Niagara IceDogs have left…
2020 1st, ___,___ ,___, 5th
2021 XX, ___, 3rd, 4th,___
2022 1st, ___,___, 4th, 5th
2023 1st, ___,___, 4th, 5th, *5th (Jake McGrath)
2024 1st, ___,___, 4th, 5th
2025 1st, ___, 3rd, 4th, 5th
2026 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th
2027 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th
…and so on.

To refill the cupboards back to status quo, the IceDogs need to acquire:
<> 6 - 2nd
<> 4 - 3rd
<> 1 - 4th


Recouping those picks should not be a difficult task, with the players available to JB. As an example, in the off-season last year, D-Jack Hanley was traded to Guelph for a 2nd, 3rd , and a 4th.

THIS YEAR
<> Akil Thomas:2019 1st round pick (2003); 2-2nds and 2-3rds
<> Jacob Paquette: 3 - 2nd

2 of the following 5 OAs will have to be traded:
<> Drew Hunter: 2 - 2nd
<> Elijah Roberts: 1 - 2nd (and 1 - 3rd)
<> Also, B. Johnson, M. Phillips and O. Castleman could bring in some 3rd and 4th.

NEXT YEAR
<> Phil Tomasino:2019 1st round pick (2003); 3-2nds and 2-3rds

***

[NiceDawg]

Originally Posted by Blacksox

Recouping those picks should not be a difficult task, with the players available to JB.

Two things you are forgetting. First of all, in addition to being a sport it is also a business and if you don't give the fans something to watch or a reason to come out, some won't return until it is bandwagon time 4 years from now. Secondly, JB has not yet proven himself to be a skilled negotiator, so the return he gets may not be as high as expected.

[Blacksox]

Originally Posted by NiceDawg

Two things you are forgetting. First of all, in addition to being a sport it is also a business and if you don't give the fans something to watch or a reason to come out, some won't return until it is bandwagon time 4 years from now. Secondly, JB has not yet proven himself to be a skilled negotiator, so the return he gets may not be as high as expected.

You are correct in saying it is a business- so that will factor in, however, you are incorrect in Joey Burke’s ability to recoup picks.

Nov. 11, 2017
Traded: Graham Knott, rights to prospect Trent Frederic, and a 7th round pick.
For: 2nd - 2021, 3rd - 2017, 3rd - 2019, 4th - 2018 and two conditional picks: 3rd - 2021, 3rd - 2022.

Jan. 9, 2017
Traded: Chris Paquette
For: Nate McDonald, 2nd - 2017, 2nd - 2018, 2nd - 2021, 2nd - 2020 and 3rd - 2022

Jan. 10, 2017
Traded: Hayden Davis
For: Kirill Maksimov, 3rd - 2018, and a 2nd - 2019.

August 27, 2018
Traded: Justin McPherson
IceDogs acquired: 3rd – 2020, 3rd – 2022 and a conditional 5th - 2023.

Nov. 27, 2018
Traded: Liam Ham
IceDogs acquired: 2nd – 2020, 2nd – 2022 and 3rd – 2024

Dec. 4, 2018
Traded: Colton Incze
IceDogs acquired: 4th – 2022

[NiceDawg]

Originally Posted by Blacksox

You are correct in saying it is a business- so that will factor in, however, you are incorrect in Joey Burke’s ability to recoup picks.

I was basing my opinion on the more recent trades at the deadline and the mighty haul he got for Lochead.

[Blacksox]

Originally Posted by NiceDawg

I was basing my opinion on the more recent trades at the deadline and the mighty haul he got for Lochead.

However, those deadline deals were not for using assets to acquire picks.

As for the Lochead deal, I hated it for all the same reason as you. I would have made Willy go to school out of spite, but strictly in terms of getting something for nothing - a 3rd for a player with limited ability like Lochead is not really that bad. Schaefer proved to be a better player than Lochead.

[NiceDawg]

Originally Posted by Blacksox

However, those deadline deals were not for using assets to acquire picks.

As for the Lochead deal, I hated it for all the same reason as you. I would have made Willy go to school out of spite, but strictly in terms of getting something for nothing - a 3rd for a player with limited ability like Lochead is not really that bad. Schaefer proved to be a better player than Lochead.

The deals still speak to his recent ability to negotiate though don't they?

Willy Lochead was a strong, aggressive shutdown defenseman with a hard shot. He played a tough game for London and was highly effective. Most teams knew when he was on the ice and lost their ability to take "liberties" with skilled or smaller players. He scored on Niagara and we lost a game due to his contribution (not to mention the iconic jersey grab). You think that talent is worth a third who is currently in elementary school - I don't.

Like any bad deal, you have to have the ability to walk away, the strength of will to resist the easy offer. There was plenty of time to negotiate with London and see if they came back to the table with something better, or even convince Lochead to remain.

As for whether Schaefer or Lochead was a better player, I am not sure everyone would agree.

[dogs777]

Originally Posted by NiceDawg

I was basing my opinion on the more recent trades at the deadline and the mighty haul he got for Lochead.

I get the recency bias but shouldn’t we be looking big picture with this he’s s better buyer than seller a lot of GMs probably. (Prediction I bet he does good recouping picks but because of what happened this year and his last name people won’t gjv him credit and will bash the return)

[Blacksox]

Originally Posted by NiceDawg

The deals still speak to his recent ability to negotiate though don't they?

Willy Lochead was a strong, aggressive shutdown defenseman with a hard shot. He played a tough game for London and was highly effective. Most teams knew when he was on the ice and lost their ability to take "liberties" with skilled or smaller players. He scored on Niagara and we lost a game due to his contribution (not to mention the iconic jersey grab). You think that talent is worth a third who is currently in elementary school - I don't.

Like any bad deal, you have to have the ability to walk away, the strength of will to resist the easy offer. There was plenty of time to negotiate with London and see if they came back to the table with something better, or even convince Lochead to remain.

As for whether Schaefer or Lochead was a better player, I am not sure everyone would agree.

Let’s say we agree that the Lochead deal should have got them a 2nd to go along with the 3rd, you cannot ignore the other excellent trades JB made to acquire picks - and base his ability solely on the Lochead deal.

As for the other trades, recent OHL trade history shows that most of those trades were in line with previous trades. Perhaps you did not like him making the deals but they are consistent with other OHL trades

Nov. 20, 2018
Traded: Billy Constantinou, Ian Martin, 2nd (2019, 2021, 2022, 2023), 3rd (2020, 2022, 2024), 5th,7th, 11th,13th
IceDogs acquired: Jason Robertson and Jacob Paquette.
Comparable Trade: TAYLOR RADDYSH (Tampa Bay) and defenceman JORDAN SAMBROOK (Detroit) traded for Hayden Fowler, 2nd - (2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023), 3rd – (2018, 2023) and 6th – (2018, 2021)

<>Trade 1: Billy Constantinou, 2nd - (2019, 2021), 3rd - (2020, 2022,), 7th, 11th
IceDogs acquired: Jason Robertson

<>Trade 2: Ian Martin, 2nd - (2022, 2023), 3rd - (2024), 5th,13th
IceDogs acquired: Jacob Paquette

Jan. 8, 2019
Trade: Lleyton Moore, 2nd – (2020, 2021, 2022) and 3rd (2022, 2023, 2024)
IceDogs acquired: Jack Studnicka and Matt Brassard.

<>Trade 3: Lleyton Moore, 2nd - (2020, 2021) and a 3rd - (2022)
IceDogs acquired: Jack Studnicka
Similar Trade: Robert Thomas was traded last year for Connor McMichael and 2 – 2nd and 1 - 3rd (which turned into another 2nd)

<>Trade 4: 2nd - (2022) and 3rd - (2023, 2024)
IceDogs acquired: Matt Brassard.
Similar Trade: Mattinen traded to Oshawa for 2nd and a 3rd

[Chipperdog]

Originally Posted by dogs777

I get the recency bias but shouldn’t we be looking big picture with this he’s s better buyer than seller a lot of GMs probably. (Prediction I bet he does good recouping picks but because of what happened this year and his last name people won’t gjv him credit and will bash the return)

Lmao..you know the Doomsday sayers in here will have nothing good to say know matter what he does. The wife and I love the whole experience that is the OHL and will be there cheering on and supporting whoever is wearing our colors. I draw the line at pom poms though.

[fishfan51]

Originally Posted by dogs777

I get the recency bias but shouldn’t we be looking big picture with this he’s s better buyer than seller a lot of GMs probably. (Prediction I bet he does good recouping picks but because of what happened this year and his last name people won’t gjv him credit and will bash the return)

And some people can't admit when he makes bad trades.

He deserves credit for good trades i.e. Lodnia, Maksimov.

He deserves criticism for bad trades i.e Miletic, Studnica/Brassard.

A good trade is a good trade and bad trade is a bad trade regardless of your last name.