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Other Hockey: OHL, NHL, International All posts related to any hockey that is NOT about the IceDogs.

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  #1  
Old 01-22-2017, 12:52 PM
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Maybe more a concern for the Ice Dogs then their fued with SMG http://ontariohockeyleague.com/artic...to-court-order
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Old 01-22-2017, 10:12 PM
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London appears to be team 12, anyone know what number Niagara is??
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Old 01-23-2017, 05:15 PM
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London appears to be team 12, anyone know what number Niagara is??
Yah, alphabetically listed they'd be like 10, so I'd be interested in where the state which franchise is what number.
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Old 01-23-2017, 06:24 PM
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Might not be hard to figure out - given our attendance since 2014, I would suspect we are among the teams that are now turning a profit - but perhaps not in 2012 which is the farthest back the list goes. We need a numbers guy or an accountant type to look through the reports and narrow it down...
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:32 PM
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Because these are private corporations still, I'm sure that they randomized the order to try and protect privacy. I would be absolutely shocked if London was not #12. Another way to try and help guess which team is which is look at playoff runs for each team each year (more playoff home games = more revenue = more profit).

Another item of note, while you get some information in here, if you read the disclaimers, it's just compiled based upon information provided by the team. They do show a huge loss in 2016, but that is a little misleading because the income from Team #12 (*cough* London *cough*) is not included, so that skews the average a bit (though including them in the income, does significantly skew the average income up).

As an accountant (and one with zero "inside" knowledge of any of these corporations), something to keep in mind for any of these corporations is there can be vastly different tax planning in place. These aren't public companies, where the only goal is to maximum reported profits every year. Some corporations may be owned by individuals that have significant income outside of the business, so they do not want to draw salaries from the business and that increases the profits. In an instance of the Icedogs, where you have family on staff, you may look to increase salaries amongst family members as part of your tax planning to use up marginal tax brackets amongst everyone, and drive your profit down. Basically, what I'm saying is there has been no "normalization" of these figures, so who knows what's real.
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Old 01-24-2017, 03:40 PM
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I thought it was unique that the data provided by the clubs was accepted as is. Meaning KPMG did not audit the statements provided by each contributing club, so while they stake their considerable reputation on their report - it is based on unverified data.

For example if the corporation "Hockey Club X" was started with a loan from Mr. Owner, there may also be terms of repayment factored into the operating budget where every year "Hockey Club X" repays a portion of that loan to Mr. Owner and that is deducted from the total before any profits even though Mr. Owner is the major shareholder. Correct me if I am wrong 61jr but if the operating budget included transfers to reserve funds of cash, those would be deducted before reporting the "profit" figure?
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Old 01-24-2017, 04:28 PM
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I thought it was unique that the data provided by the clubs was accepted as is. Meaning KPMG did not audit the statements provided by each contributing club, so while they stake their considerable reputation on their report - it is based on unverified data.

For example if the corporation "Hockey Club X" was started with a loan from Mr. Owner, there may also be terms of repayment factored into the operating budget where every year "Hockey Club X" repays a portion of that loan to Mr. Owner and that is deducted from the total before any profits even though Mr. Owner is the major shareholder. Correct me if I am wrong 61jr but if the operating budget included transfers to reserve funds of cash, those would be deducted before reporting the "profit" figure?


Loan repayments are not deductible from net income. They are capital transactions that do not flow through the income statement. They flow through the balance sheet.

To get a true picture of each teams actual profit, and to normalize all of the teams earnings, really KPMG should have started with the reported net income, and then increased it by all (or most) payments made by the clubs to 'related parties' in the form of salaries, wages, management fees, bonuses. These payments r normally deducted in determining net income.

That would give a truer picture of the operating profit/loss of the teams as a whole.

If KPMG merely took the profit/loss figures and used those for their report, shame on them.

Also, what that means, is, these WHL/OHL clubs are more profitable/lose less money, than is indicated in the report.

Without the aforementioned analysis, the report sings a song that David Branch wants to hear sung .... that owning a CHL club is mostly a break-even enterprise.

In reality this is pretty far from the truth. In addition to not analysing management/ownership compensation, the report doesn't consider the equity appreciation in these clubs.

Certainly the Dogs are worth substantially more now than the Burkes paid for them ten years ago.

The report doesn't address that huge elephant in the room.

Ps I also am an accountant ...


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Old 01-24-2017, 07:30 PM
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The only addendum I would add to Stroh's comment is that while all related party payments should be added back, there should then be a related deduction for a "fair market value" of the work provided. It's entirely possible, too, that the corporation is break-even losing money before the owners time and efforts, and they do not take any salary or fees to increase the loss to what it should be.

I'm sure KPMG only did what they were hired to do, as they were hired as the representatives of the owners. Next, there will be accountants hired by the defense side to make as many arguments to push the revenues, profits and value as high as possible. The truth will then lie somewhere in the middle.

My two cents, if the normalization work wasn't done, it's probably because it would lead to increased value and profits as opposed to decreased. It certainly does illustrate, though, it appears to be a league of haves and have-nots. It would've been much more interesting to me from a fan perspective to see the revenues also broken down by team (or random team # in this instance), just to see the disparity between teams.
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Old 01-24-2017, 07:58 PM
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Thanks for the explanations, I suspect if the true financial picture were painted, you would see a group of haves and have-mores Few businesses will operate at a loss year after year without some expectation of a profit. I suspect some teams did fold for that reason but then made a tidy sum on the back end.
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Old 01-24-2017, 09:24 PM
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Thanks for the explanations, I suspect if the true financial picture were painted, you would see a group of haves and have-mores Few businesses will operate at a loss year after year without some expectation of a profit. I suspect some teams did fold for that reason but then made a tidy sum on the back end.


EXACTLY!

Although an exception to the rule I think is Abbott . Can't understand why he stuck it out in Brampton all those years . He must've been bleeding money. I know he's wealthy but ...
When is enough enough? Unless he really wasn't losing all that much money? We will never know really ...

So then he ups and moves to NB. He didn't cash out on the back end. Hopefully he's doing better financially there.




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