Howard, Snow, Sims

[5 for fighting]

Originally Posted by maddog

Tremendous detailed breakdown Blacksox to justify what we were both saying.
Let's see what 5 for fighting responds now?

So what you are saying is:

Marty traded away a reasonable 13 picks and all the picks were recovered the next season. As well, Marty didn't trade any young players away so the team could still remain competitive the next season in their rebuild. Yep, sounds like Marty did a great job not overspending!

So I guess we are in agreement on this.

[Blacksox]

Originally Posted by 5 for fighting

It's interesting that you think a 5th and 7th pick are insignificant. Struthers was drafted in the 5th round, Rosenzweig in the 6th round and Agostinelli was drafted in the 8th round. Would you say all these players are insignificant?

Joey traded away 18 picks and 2 conditional picks, which I believe may be the most picks ever traded away in IceDogs history. Stop trying to make excuses.!

Oh my you’re digging a bigger hole for yourself to climb out of. You may want to go back and read your past posts, this comment coming from someone who places so much importance on the round players are selected in - and on that I agree - but when the draft round doesn’t suit your narrative you flip to those players the IceDogs drafted in the later rounds are significant.

It difficult to discuss or debate a topic with you, if you are not consistent in your post. Sorry but do better - you can start by going back and figure out the Landon Cato deal first.

FYI. With all due respect, it turned out to be 11 notable picks. I explained it in detail in my last post and I also explained the Landon Cato deal too.

[5 for fighting]

Originally Posted by Blacksox

Oh my you’re digging a bigger hole for yourself to climb out of. You may want to go back and read your past posts, this comment coming from someone who places so much importance on the round players are selected in - and on that I agree - but when the draft round doesn’t suit your narrative you flip to those players the IceDogs drafted in the later rounds are significant.

It difficult to discuss or debate a topic with you, if you are not consistent in your post. Sorry but do better - you can start by going back and figure out the Landon Cato deal first.

FYI. With all due respect, it turned out to be 11 notable picks. I explained it in detail in my last post and I also explained the Landon Cato deal too.

I'm not inconsistent at all. I have always said that the top 4 or 5 rounds are most important but never said other picks are insignificant.

I have said multiple times that the IceDogs are weak this season because their 18 - 20 year olds are not strong enough. I think that has now been proven.

1) For most of the year, we had 3 OA's - Cook, Howard and Betts. There was no interest from other teams for Cook or Howard and both are now playing Jr. B. Betts would likely be difficult to trade as well.

2) We had seven 19 year olds on this team. Three of them - De Simone, Sims and Snow no longer play for the IceDogs and didn't attract any interest from other OHL teams. Of the remaining 19 year olds, Peters is a third line player, Uberti and Butler are second line players and Guschin is a first line player. There are no 19 year old defencemen. That is a very limited stock of 19 year olds.

3) We only have four 18 year olds and according to your definition, only 2 are significant, Cato and Enright. That's horrible given that this 18 year old group was suppose to lead our rebuild. Why don't we have more significant players. Joey traded all the picks away!

Now Blacksox, please tell me how Joey has done a good job stocking our team with high quality 18-20 year olds?

[5 for fighting]

Originally Posted by Blacksox

If the early returns on the 04s and 05s is any indication, 23-24, with all the 06 and 07 picks banked, is the target year.

Blacksox, see your post above. You say 2023-2024 is our target year. But that would mean the IceDogs are in the middle of a 5 year rebuild. But why do we need 5 years to rebuild?

We made it to the finals in 2011-12, then 4 years later we peaked again and made it to the finals in 2015-16, then once again peaked just 3 years later in 2018-19.

Guelph won the league championship in 2018-19 and now 3 years later sit in 2nd place. We peaked in 2018-19 as well, but now sit in last place, releasing and trading away our older players.

So who's fault is it that we need to go with a 5 year rebuild? Face it, Joey giving up too much in 2018-19 combined with bad drafts in 2018 and 2019 has done this team in. It also didn't help that Joey was unable to acquire a single 2003 born player in 2019-20. We are now paying the price for those mistakes.

Look, I am not saying Joey hasn't made some good trades. And the 2020 draft was really strong. But your being completely biased if you don't see that the team's bad performance this season and last season is due in part to Joey's performance. Joey is young and inexperienced and has made some pretty big errors. Hopefully he will learn and get better.

But pushing all the blame on Billy is just completely unfair.

[strohs]

This just got interesting

Some very good points made by 5FF!

love the devils advocate role.

I always thought he spent way too much draft capital for that 2019 run and I think the proof is in the pudding now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Blacksox]

Originally Posted by 5 for fighting

It also didn't help that Joey was unable to acquire a single 2003 born player in 2019 .

Actually, Joey Burke did one better that year, he got an 2004 1st rounder (Aidan Castle) instead.

[Blacksox]

Originally Posted by strohs

love the devils advocate role.

I always thought he spent way too much draft capital for that 2019 run and I think the proof is in the pudding now

Strohs, you are a smart man - so let’s use hindsight, mathematics and common sense to figure this out.

The 2019 IceDogs team was one of the most talented teams assembled that year. In order to accomplish that Joey added Studnicka, Brassard, Robertson, Paquette and Lodnia at the net “high draft pick” cost of 11 (6 - 2nds, 4 - 3rd and 1 - conditional 5th). Included the 5th in case you consider that a high pick?

Of the four players traded: Singer, Martin, Constantinou - only Moore is still playing in the OHL.

First, do the math for the above and now use common sense for this below...

That was an incredible hockey team and as loyal STH how lucky were we to be rewarded with that caliber of a team - too bad they failed. Not sure why? Do you?


***

[maddog]

Originally Posted by Blacksox

Strohs, you are a smart man - so let’s use hindsight, mathematics and common sense to figure this out.

The 2019 IceDogs team was one of the most talented teams assembled that year. In order to accomplish that Joey added Studnicka, Brassard, Robertson, Paquette and Lodnia at the net “high draft pick” cost of 11 (6 - 2nds, 4 - 3rd and 1 - conditional 5th). Included the 5th in case you consider that a high pick?

Of the four players traded: Singer, Martin, Constantinou - only Moore is still playing in the OHL.

First, do the math for the above and now use common sense for this below...

That was an incredible hockey team and as loyal STH how lucky were we to be rewarded with that caliber of a team - too bad they failed. Not sure why? Do you?


***

Well, I know why,,
His name is Billy Burke!!
Very simply put BB was out of his coaching league in this powerhouse Joey Burke put together.
A much better team than our 2016 Marty's team!!

[dogs777]

Originally Posted by maddog

Well, I know why,,
His name is Billy Burke!!
Very simply put BB was out of his coaching league in this powerhouse Joey Burke put together.
A much better team than our 2016 Marty's team!!

I disagree I would take that Marty team over the one that Joey/Billy had the other year especially in the net

[Blacksox]

Originally Posted by dogs777

I disagree I would take that Marty team over the one that Joey/Billy had the other year especially in the net

I would take either team, both were good and exciting to watch live. Going to the rink both those years was exhilarating as a fan.

Thanks Marty and Joey for assembling those teams for the great fans of Niagara.