the NEW ARENA talk thread

[WellandDogsFan]

Originally Posted by AlphaDog

Logistically, HWY.406/20 would be great for the people of Niagara (might loose a good chunk of St. Catharines people who don't want to drive the 406 in the snow), but from a commercial perspective, I can't see anyone wanting to drop down an arena out in the crop fields of booney land. Most arenas like to be built close by a commercial area so that those businesses can benefit from it.

Of course, land would be cheap out there compared to in the city, but I just can't see them wanting to put a rink out in the middle of nowhere with nothing around it but forest and crops. If the arena was free to be built and they only cared about the fans, sure they'd do it. But they can't just turn their back on the business community and put a rink 10 miles away from the closest commercial area. Now if you put it right smack in the MIDDLE of a commercial area, I think they'd get a lot more support for it being built.

We drive the 406 to get to every game. Sun, moon, rain, snow, it doesnt matter. The 406 is a well maintained 400 series highway. Not taking a 10 minute drive because of snow is laughable. (no offense AD)

[AlphaDog]

Originally Posted by WellandDogsFan

We drive the 406 to get to every game. Sun, moon, rain, snow, it doesnt matter. The 406 is a well maintained 400 series highway. Not taking a 10 minute drive because of snow is laughable. (no offense AD)

I'm not saying *I* wouldn't do it - you're totally misunderstanding what I'm saying - but some people wouldn't. Not to mention all the people who walk to the games or take the bus or get dropped off, etc... All I'm saying is that you might gain more people from Welland and the Falls, but you would also loose some from St. Kitts.

Look at all the rinks in the OHL/AHL/NHL/etc - how many are stuck in the middle of a rural farmerland area with no commerce around it?

THERE'S A REASON for that, doncha think?

I'm sure every city that's built an arena could have found much cheaper land outside of the city somewhere, but they don't. Why is that?

Originally Posted by AlphaDog

Logistically, HWY.406/20 would be great for the people of Niagara (might loose a good chunk of St. Catharines people who don't want to drive the 406 in the snow), but from a commercial perspective, I can't see anyone wanting to drop down an arena out in the crop fields of booney land. Most arenas like to be built close by a commercial area so that those businesses can benefit from it.

Of course, land would be cheap out there compared to in the city, but I just can't see them wanting to put a rink out in the middle of nowhere with nothing around it but forest and crops. If the arena was free to be built and they only cared about the fans, sure they'd do it. But they can't just turn their back on the business community and put a rink 10 miles away from the closest commercial area. Now if you put it right smack in the MIDDLE of a commercial area, I think they'd get a lot more support for it being built.

ottawa is in the middle of nowhere and i believe commercial dev. has crept up to where they are (restaurants etc. ) yet still its a drive... i know its the bigs, but still...

[cope]

the 406 / 20 is logical, but not practical.

the Pen Center is practical but no logical

the area on 4th by where the new hospital will be is kinda the best of both, from HWY access, commerical, space.

again, new arena talks are great, but lets not forget that the team needs to stay first.

[WellandDogsFan]

Originally Posted by AlphaDog

I'm not saying *I* wouldn't do it - you're totally misunderstanding what I'm saying - but some people wouldn't. Not to mention all the people who walk to the games or take the bus or get dropped off, etc... All I'm saying is that you might gain more people from Welland and the Falls, but you would also loose some from St. Kitts.

Look at all the rinks in the OHL/AHL/NHL/etc - how many are stuck in the middle of a rural farmerland area with no commerce around it?

THERE'S A REASON for that, doncha think?

I'm sure every city that's built an arena could have found much cheaper land outside of the city somewhere, but they don't. Why is that?

Oh no AD, I understood what you were saying and I wasnt saying you wouldnt go to the game. I just think that people that wouldnt go to the game due to a short drive on the 406 when its snowing arent really fans of the Dogs or of the game. I could be wrong, been wrong a lot lol

Yes, a downtown St Kitts arena would be great, but I dont see that happening with the political climate in St Kitts.

[AlphaDog]

Originally Posted by cope

the 406 / 20 is logical, but not practical.

the Pen Center is practical but no logical

the area on 4th by where the new hospital will be is kinda the best of both, from HWY access, commerical, space.

again, new arena talks are great, but lets not forget that the team needs to stay first.

Yah - this thread should in no way be taken as though it's actual planning. More of a 'dreaming out loud' type thread.

[AlphaDog]

Originally Posted by WellandDogsFan

Oh no AD, I understood what you were saying and I wasnt saying you wouldnt go to the game. I just think that people that wouldnt go to the game due to a short drive on the 406 when its snowing arent really fans of the Dogs or of the game. I could be wrong, been wrong a lot lol

hehe, just gotta always keep in mind that a lot of fans at the average game might have been borderline "go to a game or go to dinner/movie/hangout at friends/etc.." They're not all diehards. I'm not sure what % of the crowd the 'average joe that might have something else to do that night' makes up, but those are the people we'd be losing if we stuck the rink out there.

Yes, a downtown St Kitts arena would be great, but I dont see that happening with the political climate in St Kitts.

No no no, not downtown! THe Pen! Downtown St. Kitts would be great if you just levelled about 3 blocks with bulldozers. And Lord knows some of the downtown area would benefit from a good bulldozing. But the roads just can't support the traffic down there.

Pen Center dude! 4 big parking lots - turn one into a multi level, use one of the others for the building!

(of course, this is just another one of my dreams)

Other areas I've stated in the past are...

- the old Domtar paper site on the corner of Harzell and Glendale
- various areas in Louth (although I dn't like using up that space which was supposed to be designated as "Green Only" space - but it's not like anyone bothered using it for crop land anyway
- down across from GM Plant 2 on Glendale there's some good open space (but that's also booney land)
- near White Oaks around that big new Leon's building or whatever it is, but of course someone posted that that land was owned already by someone. And again, booneyland.

[dogsphotog]

Not that it really makes a difference, because this is only "virtual planning" but you have to think about logistics as well. If we are going to build a brand new rink, on the basis of existing problems with the Jack, they would obviously make sure those issues would not arise with the new one. parking is obviously an issue, as is access. I couldn't imagine trying to get to and park at the pen for a game in mid December. that place is already a nightmare with shoppers, now ad 4000 hockey fans... same goes with the louth area, same problems with shopping, bad lights & intersection's. it takes me 15 mins to get from 4th & martindale to ontario & welland sometimes. i am a big fan of the old adage, if you build it they will come, hence the 406/hwy20 idea, however the leons/whiteoakes location would be a good one, problem being (as with hartzel/oakdale) the land is pre-owned. the key thing to keep in mind here would definitely be access, in and out of the rink asap, and close to the highway. (side note, that was a long sentence) . I love playing "virtual developer", and to be honest, i would put it at brock, on the southwest corner of st. davids and glenridge, where they have there parking and ball fields. could share the arena with the brock teams, and have students made easily accessible for part time employment. access to the highway is not far, as well as access south and north along glenridge. timmys & micky d's are close along with the four points in case teams need lodging. again, just my $0.02

[Rolston87]

^ dogsphotog FTW!

Although AD has excellent dreams.

[VERBATIM]

Originally Posted by dogsphotog

Guys, just to let you know, you can easily fit an arena with a 125m x 75m (400ft x 250ft) footprint in either site 1 or 2, and you could also fit an arena with a 125m x 100m (400ft x 325ft) footprint in site 2. However, I personally think the best place to put a new rink would be at the 406 & HWY 20, That way you would be 10/25 mins from everywhere in the region. Just my $0.02

Your .02 is well spent if an arena goes it will be 406 Hwy#20 area.

Reason's are $$$$$ & $$$$$ & $$$$$

Land is cheap location is central and major hwy nearby.

406 will be getting expansion to port hwy #20 will be getting expansion and bypass fonthill area.
Niagara south is on a major growth spurt as it is the only places left to expand.

The next option is to raise the roof on the Jack or Memorial arena as this is the lowest cost of all.

Just a side question what does everyone think a 5000 seat arena will cost.
remember if it's out in the boonies you need parking for about 2500 cars.
If it's in the city you can get away with 1500 nearby parking spots.
I have been working on this way before the dogs ever thought about moving here.
Just want to see what page everyone is on.